The niqab

[FatAndFaithless]

Pragmatically, there are situations where this is untenable (e.g. motorcycle helmets in banks, balls out in public etc.) and here's where I think some exceptions should be applied. This causes problems where women refuse to take their veils off. We'd be effectively banning them from (for example) banks thus reducing their freedoms even further; not such a problem for every-day transactions which can be done on the internet but a problem for more complex, face-to-face transactions.

It's fine if the bank bans those types of face coverings on their private property, it wouldn't be the government doing it.

[Ben Davis]

It's fine if the bank bans those types of face coverings on their private property, it wouldn't be the government doing it.

Yep, that's what I meant by 'exception'. I think that there are social conventions which need to be agreed upon (like the bike helmets thing) and the government should be ready to insist that private bans are lifted where they're judged to infringe upon personal freedoms, unjustly.

[FatAndFaithless]

Would be interesting to see which side the SCOTUS falls on if someone refused to removed their hijab in an American bank.

[Ben Davis]

Would be interesting to see which side the SCOTUS falls on if someone refused to removed their hijab in an American bank.

Whoever pays the most.

Hijab (head-hair & chest veil) shouldn't be a problem, just like wearing a hat and jumper isn't a problem. But niqab (face veil) should have a few instances where it should be removed.

Hijab:


Niqab:

[FatAndFaithless]

Well, they even ask you to remove baseball caps in the areas I live, so any sort of religious head/face covering would work for the purpose of feeling out the SCOTUS, I suppose.

[lifesagift]

It has to be banned !

Those that oppose it being banned, quite often hate the mechanism that will ban it, or will hate any form of control.
'Freedom' in this society is very limited, there are more things you can't do than those you can!

But the full face veil is wrong on many fronts.

It may be a religious "freedom"... but so is FGM !!!

The main reasons for a ban are...

The Niqab is a security risk. Any dress code that guarantees one group of people anonymity is unacceptable. This has nothing to do with women or religion.


The niqab is a symbol that signifies a refusal to assimilate into other cultures. A symbol that says, we will not evolve or change, but will remain a constant in history. Many who try to be tolerant towards religion and Islam in particular, accept that religion gets a “free pass” on some things, but will bite as soon as it is called “cultural”. There is an unfortunate debate on whether the niqab is required by Islam or not (there is nothing in the Quran that spells that out). So the debate goes back to religion when in fact, it has little to do with it.


The niqab puts the other party (non-niqabi) at a great disadvantage in any conversation.One person sees all full face expressions. One party gets a full unfettered stream of communication whereas the other limits it to audio.

[pocaracas]

The niqab and any other form of veil is not religious... it's cultural... it's geographical.
In the desert, in the blistering sun, it makes sense to cover your face and hair.
In Paris, France... it makes absolutely no sense!

If one culture, one country, doesn't want that form of face hiding, they're entitled to it.
If one culture refuses to let go of that face hiding, while attempting to become citizens of the country which doesn't want it... well then... we have a problem...
And, as it tends to be in these countries, democracy wins.
The will of the majority of the people, represented by the government and the laws they pass, wins over the will of of a few stubborn immigrants.
They move out of their country and into the other for a reason... If they find that they must wear some stupid piece of clothing which isn't allowed in that country, then they should move out to some country where the piece of clothing is welcomed.... like, back in the home they left.

And then there's a hundred different cases where things aren't like this... screw it.
If you want to do something that is illegal in one place, but legal in another, you should move to where it's legal, or face the legal consequences of your actions.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Wait...balls out in public is untenable??

Uh oh...

Boru

[The Valkyrie]

Wait...balls out in public is untenable??

Uh oh...

Boru

Well, there are plenty of dicks out in public . . .

[lifesagift]

The niqab and any other form of veil is not religious... it's cultural... it's geographical.

Correct, but Islam is not religious, it's political..controlling...

the niqab is a relic from ancient peoples... that survives because of brainwashing !