An argument for why God would make himself known.

[FatAndFaithless]

Something something unlikely therefore god.

[Cyberman]

@Heywood:

Great - now all we need to do is find something like that. Something verifiably unambiguous, that can only have one explanation and which doesn't require subjective interpretation.

I'll wait.

[Cyberman]

You have annular and ocular eclipses that make it easy to see that yes there arn't always exactly the same apparent size. Still when I gaze up at the sky...they always have seemed the same size to me.

Hey, put those goalposts back!

You cited this apparent perfection as evidence of a god. Then sneaked the position back when it was pointed out that this was not always the case (and indeed will continue not to be the case into the future). Now you've shifted ground again.

So I repeat my question: what significance do you think the apparent Sun-Moon average angular diameter actually has?

[Heywood]

Something something unlikely therefore god.

I admit its not a good argument for God....but it is the kind of thing I would expect to see if God exists and wants to give hints about his existence.

Its kind of funny but a couple of years after this thought occurred to me the History Channel's The Universe featured an astronomer who mused that our planet might be the only one in the entire universe where total eclipses happen and intelligent beings are there to see them. He felt it was that big of a long shot(and I did too at the time).

However we know more about solar system formation now...so while still a very huge long shot...I no longer think its such a huge long shot that there might be only one place in the entire universe where it occurs(intelligent beings coming into existence at the same time an total eclipse is possible).

[FatAndFaithless]

I admit its not a good argument for God....but it is the kind of thing I would expect to see if God exists and wants to give hints about his existence.

And it's also what you would expect to see if God doesn't exist and the formation of the moon followed the observed laws of physics...

[Cato]

I admit its not a good argument for God....but it is the kind of thing I would expect to see if God exists and wants to give hints about his existence.

How juvenile of God; I quit playing hide-and-seek before reaching puberty.

[Heywood]

And it's also what you would expect to see if God doesn't exist and the formation of the moon followed the observed laws of physics...

If there are other civilizations in the universe very few if any at all...probably have the opportunity to see a total solar eclipse.

I am sure that total solar eclipses do not prove God....but I am even more sure they are rarities and we are very lucky to be able to enjoy them.

[Jenny A]

What are the odds the sun and the moon would appear to be the same apparent size at the exact same time intelligent beings would exist to appreciate it?

This kind of thinking is an example of the lottery fallacy. The odds of any one person winning the lottery may be several million to one and thus any one person winning it looks miraculous. But the chances of someone winning it approach 100%. Therefore a lottery win is not miraculous.

Similarly, the moon could appear to be a number of different sizes relative to the sun as seen from the earth (actually it does vary in perceived size, but let's dismiss that for the moment and give you the factual benefit of the doubt). The odds are against any particular perceived size, yet the moon has to be one of the possible perceived sizes. That it happens to be any one of the possibilities is not miraculous.

[Cyberman]

All you need for a total eclipse are a place to observe it, a willing star and a third body close enough that it appears to be at least the same size as that star, or larger. You can eclipse our Sun with your hand, for example, as long as the hand is closer to your eyes than the Sun is.

Incidentally, eclipses don't require a local star. They happen any time a nearby object hides a more distant one, though these are more correctly called occultations. As in occult = hidden.

[Heywood]

All you need for a total eclipse are a place to observe it, a willing star and a third body close enough that it appears to be at least the same size as that star, or larger. You can eclipse our Sun with your hand, for example, as long as the hand is closer to your eyes than the Sun is.

You also need an observer...4 billion years the sun and moon appeared to be different sizes in the sky....but the same time humans show up...a mere instant in relation to the age of the earth....it just happens that the sun and moon appear to be the same size in the sky .

Its a parlay...and the chances of parlays coming in are long....in this case very long.

Now imagine another parlay coming in. You're playing poker. The dealer deals your opponent a royal flush 2 times in a row and deals you 4 of a kind two times in a row. You bust out....what is more likely? Bad luck or was the dealer a mechanic(in the poker world a mechanic is dealer who cheats by not dealing randomly)?