we don't send ourselves to hell

[Godscreated]

@ Nope and dyresand, I don't have to prove anything to you, that's not what God called me to do, if you believe it is then show me in the scriptures. It doesn't effect my salvation one way or the other if you don't believe, I made my choice through the free will God gave me and all of mankind. One day boys you will find out exactly who Satan has fooled and on that day you'll be crying like babies unless you decide to choose Jesus.

GC

[Fidel_Castronaut]

@ Nope and dyresand, I don't have to prove anything to you, that's not what God called me to do, if you believe it is then show me in the scriptures. It doesn't effect my salvation one way or the other if you don't believe, I made my choice through the free will God gave me and all of mankind. One day boys you will find out exactly who Satan has fooled and on that day you'll be crying like babies unless you decide to choose Jesus.

GC

So why are you here then?

Also, do you ever get tired of touting meaningless threats against those that think you're full of BS? You may as well threaten us with an invisible hammer if you're going to threaten us with hell, you know.

Never gets any less funny the way you guys automatically default to the fire and brimstone when someone says 'I don't believe you.'

[abaris]

So prophecies that are at all dependent on human actions are just guesses?

Revelation is just a guess?

Fever dreams, mental health problems, taking the wrong kind of dope, Fraud, invention for political reasons - you take your pick.

Otherwise you'd have to give Nostradamus some credit too. There's not a single prophecy in the world that wouldn't take mental acrobatics for someone to defend it.

[Tonus]

That's because you've never experienced God's love, free will is that important to Him. God is never conflicted, He's omniscient. His well being lays only with Him, He's omnipotent. If God was only obliged to himself, then why did Jesus die for us. Seems you have some problems in your thoughts about God.

The problem is in the way you are portraying god. You didn't really respond to what I said, you just restated what you believe god to be. But the conflict remains. God cannot be made to act against his will by anyone, yet he acts against his own desires because of human action. That is from your own explanation of his nature. There is a conflict, and humans will always be able to force god to act against his desire unless they are stripped of free will. The situation as you describe it does not make sense.

[John V]

OT prophecies have always been contingent on human actions, as in either repent or this (plague, foreign invasion, etc) will happen.

No, there are messianic prophecies with no contingencies attached. Some regard the crucifixion. By your reasoning, god could not have made such predictions, as he didn't know that people, being free moral agents, would kill Jesus.

The people of Nineveh repented and avoided a dire fate. God can know the potentials and as events draw near can make near certain predictions (as in the case of Peter's thrice denial).

Peter's denial wasn't certain when Jesus predicted it? Are you seriously saying that?

As for Revelation you will notice that almost all the action is taken by the Lord.

Actually, no, I notice plenty of action by people and by Satan and his crew. Is it your position that those are just guesses at this point, and god doesn't really know what will happen?

[Whateverist]

Oh, yeah? Well then I can just go to hell!

[Nope]

@ Nope and dyresand, I don't have to prove anything to you, that's not what God called me to do, if you believe it is then show me in the scriptures. It doesn't effect my salvation one way or the other if you don't believe, I made my choice through the free will God gave me and all of mankind. One day boys you will find out exactly who Satan has fooled and on that day you'll be crying like babies unless you decide to choose Jesus.

GC

Of course, you don't have to prove anything to anyone; however, if you voluntarily go onto an atheist board, it will be expected that you provide some proof for your statements or people will mock or ignore you. The same thing would occur if I went on a Christian board and refused to provide any logic about there being no god.

Also, people have provided you with scripture references and you ignore them but continue asking for verses even though you don't provide any to back up your believes.

[Tonus]

By your reasoning, god could not have made such predictions, as he didn't know that people, being free moral agents, would kill Jesus.

The JWs used to teach (may be different now) that god would intervene in human affairs to make sure his predictions came to pass. Which is to say, if things weren't working out as predicted, he would simply influence people into action. It was to show that if god said something would happen, we could be assured that it would happen because he could arrange for it. It made god's predictions a certainty.

Aside from the quibble of god meddling in the free will of at least a few individuals (Judas was the example that troubled me the most) it's not a bad way to have a world where the future is not set in stone, yet a deity can make predictions that we are certain will come to pass.

[abaris]

No, there are messianic prophecies with no contingencies attached. Some regard the crucifixion. By your reasoning, god could not have made such predictions, as he didn't know that people, being free moral agents, would kill Jesus.

OK, and that's nothing more than a circular argument. Proving one part of a book with another part of the same book. There's no outside evidence whatsoever that these things really happened. And there's also the very likely possibility of the book being edited after the fact.

[Cato]

One day boys you will find out exactly who Satan has fooled and on that day you'll be crying like babies unless you decide to choose Jesus.

“Ya koon tacha poonoo nee sah, gee.” ~ Jabba the Hutt