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January 5, 2015 at 2:45 pm (This post was last modified: January 5, 2015 at 3:05 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(January 5, 2015 at 2:28 pm)Esquilax Wrote: The problem wasn't the speed with which you grabbed the links, but that you fell for and propagated known falsehoods because they confirmed what you already believed. The majority of these christian persecution tales are much the same; lies or distortions that theist news sources latch onto without ever knowing the full story, nor caring. If you were googling them, either you already knew what you were looking for, in which case you're a dupe who didn't bother to fact check, or you were looking for persecution of your religion generally, meaning you were just looking for examples that confirm your presuppositions, which both isn't an honest way to present a situation, nor is it effective as single examples, given without context or a broader social indicator, are not sufficient to determine larger trends. Either way, what reason do any of us have to trust any links you give in future? It only took me three minutes or so to falsify your last claims, after all; evidently even that much research is too much, both for you and the persecution brigade this stuff feeds.
Which doesn't even address the broader notion that, just as Not-X is not X, Not-Secularism is not Secularism, making your entire point moot even if it was accurate. "X, Y, and Z aren't doing A right!" does not imply that the ideological basis for A is ineffective, impossible, or incorrect.
I don't know how it is in Australia, but these stories are not uncommon in the US (probably the most litigious country in the world #American Atheists #Freedom From Religion Foundation), Hence why I didn't bother fact checking.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(January 5, 2015 at 2:45 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I don't know how it is in Australia, but these stories are not uncommon in the US (probably the most litigious country in the world #American Atheists #Freedom From Religion Foundation), Hence why I didn't bother fact checking.
Not uncommon, but also not, you know, factual. As I think I've pretty aptly demonstrated so far, given that the best examples you saw fit to give were a joke and a complete fabrication. Most days you can at least find one or two of these squealing persecution narratives from US sources on atheist blogs, followed by a round of slight fact checking or language deconstruction that shows that the persecution either is not happening, or is simply the proper execution of a secular American government being misinterpreted by christians used to a certain amount of privilege.
Since you mention American Atheists and the FFRF, I will too, since the cases they take on are often breaches of the definition of a secular government that they are attempting to repair. What we have here, if you wanted to be at all accurate, is a country where the most highly religious demographics are the ones damaging the secular nature of the government, while the atheists are the ones attempting to keep that secular nature pure.
It's almost like an exact reversal of your claim here! hock:
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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(January 5, 2015 at 4:15 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Since you mention American Atheists and the FFRF, I will too, since the cases they take on are often breaches of the definition of a secular government that they are attempting to repair. What we have here, if you wanted to be at all accurate, is a country where the most highly religious demographics are the ones damaging the secular nature of the government, while the atheists are the ones attempting to keep that secular nature pure.
It's almost like an exact reversal of your claim here! hock:
No, usually their cases are petty, like the attempt to remove the 10 commandments from public property. If there is no law against erecting a monument on public land, then one should be allowed to do so, the government just can't have a preference in the case of religion, this is secularism. http://atheists.org/legal/bradford-county
Quote:In the complaint, American Atheists and Mr. Cooney demanded a declaratory judgement stating that the display of the monument violates the United States Consitution, specifically the Establishment Clause and an injuction requiring the removal of the monument.
Quote:In May 2013 the American Atheists settled with Bradford County, Florida, regarding a monument containing the ten commandments. The American Atheists would be allowed to place their own monument onto public property. This marks the first time that such a monument will be placed on public land. The monument is being furnished by American Atheists via a grant from the Stiefel Freethought Foundation
Quote: It's very simple: I don't believe in "God," but my money says I do.
I am an American, but I am not a part of the "We" in "In God We Trust." Millions of good, moral, patriotic citizens do not believe in a god. We pay taxes, vote, sit on juries and serve in the military, but every time we spend a dollar bill we are told that Congress considers us outsiders.
To be accurate, the motto should say, "In God Some Of Us Trust," and wouldn't that be silly?
Unbelievers represent 7%-9% of the population. By comparison, Jews are a respected minority at 2%-3%. Most people would consider "In Jesus We Trust" to be exclusionary and inappropriate. So, why is it okay to exclude atheists and agnostics?
Yes, because Judaism is the only religion that doesn't believe in Jesus.
I'm pretty sure their resources could be put to better use fighting "real" problems, don't you agree?
(January 5, 2015 at 11:32 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Yes, because Judaism is the only religion that doesn't believe in Jesus.
I believe there are a couple others. We even have a catholic from some strange sect that does not worship god or jesus.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
January 5, 2015 at 11:49 pm (This post was last modified: January 5, 2015 at 11:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm sorry, did you just describe a case involving the constitutional issues of a monument in front of an american fucking courthouse as petty? You've flown the coop man.
The AA dropped the ball on that one. I don't want to see their silly monument on a lawn, I want to see our constitution upheld.....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(November 9, 2014 at 12:51 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Atheist's are always trying to insult someone intelligence, which is the reason for my signature btw.
(November 9, 2014 at 9:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I'm going by the evidence presented here. If you want to be regarded as intelligent, you'll need to post intelligently.
(November 9, 2014 at 12:51 am)Huggy74 Wrote: So using this logic, you're saying all Caucasians are guilty of the atrocities perpetrated against indigenous peoples, and atheists are worse than the Nazis ( since they had a much, much higher body count), you agree?
(November 9, 2014 at 9:36 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Firstly, the NaZis didn't have a higher body count, which is a fact you'd know if you had an education. Generally accepted is a population of about 50 million natives in 1492. In the next four hundred years, that declined by 90%, giving us a death toll of 45 million, roughly. Compare that to the NaZi's 11 million, and if you remember your math, you'll agree with me that you're wrong in this claim.
(November 10, 2014 at 1:20 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: what are you even talking about? remember what I said about irony? What I said was..
(November 9, 2014 at 12:51 am)Huggy74 Wrote: atheists are worse than the Nazis ( since they had a much, much higher body count), you agree?
as far as I know, stalin wasn't around in 1492...
According to this site http://www.scottmanning.com/content/comm...ody-count/ Communist (read athiest) regimes have a body count of 149,469,610 people, and that's during a period of only 80 years or so. 400 years and only 45 million? thats rank amateurism.
Of course, no response.... shocking.
(January 5, 2015 at 11:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'm sorry, did you just describe a case involving the constitutional issues of a monument in front of an american fucking courthouse as petty? You've flown the coop man.
The AA dropped the ball on that one. I don't want to see their silly monument on a lawn, I want to see our constitution upheld.....
It is petty, in what way does that monument in affect you?
(January 5, 2015 at 11:51 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I can't wait 'til he sees his first monument to Satan mounted under his argumentation.
I could careless, which is how atheists claim to feel, except they don't.
hock:
![[Image: 220px-American_Atheists_and_Commandments.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=upload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F8%2F84%2FAmerican_Atheists_and_Commandments.jpg%2F220px-American_Atheists_and_Commandments.jpg)
