The second law of thermodynamics and evolution

[LostLocke]

Ugh, is that where this nonsense comes from?

Yep. He's said that sunlight creates entropy, which is why things like cars rot away when left in the desert. It's also the cause of aging; the photons are shooting us full of holes all the time. Unless it's cloudy - water vapour can stop high-energy photons.

So, are they saying it's either full on entropy, or full on increase in complexity? There's no concept of "both can occur at the same time" here?

[Cyberman]

Well duh. Incoming sunlight increases entropy of the planet, and radiating it away at night decreases it.

I'll have to see if I can find the clip when I'm not on mobile. His argument, such as it is and iirc, is that solar energy is lethal to living systems because of the second law of thermodynamics. Which is a law, so god's gonna get ya for breaking it.

[Spacedog]

I can think of a few potential answers to this:

1. While you may see a local increase in order, on a larger scale that order is actually decreasing or at least neutral (i.e. enlarge the closed system), this is applicable not just to evolution but the whole universe. For example, planet formation may appear to reduce entropy (increase order) but when considering the effects on the surrounding space there is actually a net increase in entropy (decrease order). The concept is explained well here: https://files.nyu.edu/air1/public/Comple...ntropy.htm ... although some of the later arguments become too speculative.

2. The second law of thermodynamics is a probability not a certainty. I quite like the idea that we exist because of an unimaginably long chain of improbable events. "Given enough time, a chimp punching at random on a typewriter would almost surely type out all of Shakespeare's plays."

As for the replies saying entropy can only be used with regard to heat and not order, Brian doesn't seem to think so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQSoaiubuA0

[professor]

By the way, it has been pointed out that those monkeys will NEVER pound out Shakespeare.
A hundred years ago that BS made people drunk, but not today.
I remember A.E.Wilder Smith telling that the information (genetic code) is typed IN and it is also typed OUT, the monkeys could type forever and nothing would show on the paper.

[FatAndFaithless]

The hell are you babbling about, prof? The monkeys/shakespeare thought experiment is just a fun exercise to demonstrate the immensity of infinity.

[abaris]

By the way, it has been pointed out that those monkeys will NEVER pound out Shakespeare.
A hundred years ago that BS made people drunk, but not today.
I remember A.E.Wilder Smith telling that the information (genetic code) is typed IN and it is also typed OUT, the monkeys could type forever and nothing would show on the paper.

Sometimes it's really hard to tell if you're joking or if you're serious. For your own peace of mind I hope the latter isn't the case.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Here u r
Morris Henrifa the Scientific Creationism says: "The second law of thermodynamics in that everything seeks to chaos, which precludes the possibility for development(, which requires the pursuit of the organization )

... except that he forgets the parts about a closed system and localized negative entropy.

[Anomalocaris]

By the way, it has been pointed out that those monkeys will NEVER pound out Shakespeare.

Why not? They clearly did pound out the bible.

[Cyberman]

I think our ironic prof is alluding to a study apparently done to test the monkey hypothesis (such as it is). It seems that after a few pages of gibberish, our simian cousins developed a fondness for the letter N and typed it out continuously. If true then it's an amusingly interesting object lesson in the gulf between analogy and reality, even though the experiment fell somewhat short of the infinite monkey sample size required.

[Alex K]

By the way, it has been pointed out that those monkeys will NEVER pound out Shakespeare.
A hundred years ago that BS made people drunk, but not today.
I remember A.E.Wilder Smith telling that the information (genetic code) is typed IN and it is also typed OUT, the monkeys could type forever and nothing would show on the paper.

I have no idea what you are trying to say or argue here... And what's that with typing in and out?