Atheists: Facing the unfaceable

[Esquilax]

I didn't even say that it is proven that the life in us is non-material. I said that I think we should not be 100% convinced that it is not.

Your words are meaningless Rhythm. Due to all the failed experiments, science has proven to me that life is non-material. No magic involved.

It also just hit me that the thought of death to atheists would be easier to face than for most theists. When facing death, many theists worry that they haven't lived a moral life, and are worried that they will suffer for it after death. An atheist believes he can live in any he wants and he will meet the same end as everybody else. There is no fear of any retribution for what he has done. The Stalins and Neros of the world really don't have any more reason to fear death than the good people.

However, we all still have the manner of our death to fear, and the legacy we leave behind. The lack of something explicitly phrased as a reward or punishment doesn't mean death is equal for everyone.

[robvalue]

I believe flying purple invisible spiritual space monkeys pulled the universe out of their butts, and science has persistently and utterly failed to prove me wrong. They won't even take it seriously.

I rest my case.

Please look up "argument from ignorance" people. It's being used as punctuation on this site

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Here you go: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Read it, or continue to not be taken seriously. General advice to anyone not already familiar with it.

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I'm so gonna do a logical fallacy bit on my blog.

[Lek]

However, we all still have the manner of our death to fear, and the legacy we leave behind. The lack of something explicitly phrased as a reward or punishment doesn't mean death is equal for everyone.

To you it is equal because you will have no knowledge or perception of the legacy you leave behind. So it will be meaningless to you at that point.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'd kill myself just to experience something new.

Bad idea. Our planet is still trying to shake off the infestation of Christians created as a side effect the last time a god did this.

Oh, I'd make different rules, first, like Relax, guys -- no one's sending you to Hell, and You know, if you're going to insist on being a dick, I'll just have to move you to Cleveland.

[Faith No More]

Ah, the good ol' no-god-equals-nihilism routine, only this one has an afterlife twist.

You do realize that the legacy people leave behind is not simply for their own benefit? Despite what you've been lead to believe, Lek, god isn't necessary to value human life, and clearly, believing doesn't necessarily mean you do, either.

It's amazing that theists are always harping that free will ruined the Earth but somehow that free will doesn't give you the power to value things as you see fit. Meaning can be created by any sentient being, not just the invisible magic ones.

[Thumpalumpacus]

A living being has something within it that all the same materials, simply assembled, do not have.

Is a car alive? I mean, you could put all the parts in a pile and they won't get you home, but if they're in the right place, then you're good to go. That doesn't mean that the car has a spirit. It just means that the rights things are in the right place to do a job.

You might wish to familiarize yourself with the concept of emergent properties.

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It also just hit me that the thought of death to atheists would be easier to face than for most theists. When facing death, many theists worry that they haven't lived a moral life, and are worried that they will suffer for it after death. An atheist believes he can live in any he wants and he will meet the same end as everybody else. There is no fear of any retribution for what he has done. The Stalins and Neros of the world really don't have any more reason to fear death than the good people.

I don't fear death because I know that it is inescapable, and I refuse to worry over things I cannot control. It has nothing to do with your assumption of feckless immorality.

Far as I can tell, the fear of Hell hasn't stopped Christians from filling our prisons, and fucking up our world.

[Esquilax]

However, we all still have the manner of our death to fear, and the legacy we leave behind. The lack of something explicitly phrased as a reward or punishment doesn't mean death is equal for everyone.

To you it is equal because you will have no knowledge or perception of the legacy you leave behind. So it will be meaningless to you at that point.

So because I won't be around to see it, because I can only concern myself with it by planning it, it's meaningless? You wanna try and justify any of the things you say? If I donate money to charity, I won't have any knowledge or perception of who benefits from that money, it doesn't mean the money ceases to exist, or that the gesture has no meaning at all to me. So what if at some point I won't be around? My legacy matters to me now, it matters to the people I leave behind, to the world that I've lived in and experienced my entire life; it doesn't stop mattering just because I won't personally benefit from it.

Why do you christians need to be so selfish and solipsistic? This entire outlook you have seems to hinge on the ideas that things that don't directly benefit you have no meaning, and that if you someday cease to be, then reality will too.

[Lek]

Is a car alive? I mean, you could put all the parts in a pile and they won't get you home, but if they're in the right place, then you're good to go. That doesn't mean that the car has a spirit. It just means that the rights things are in the right place to do a job.

You might wish to familiarize yourself with the concept of emergent properties.

For the car, the ingredient that makes the car function is gasoline. That product is not part of the car, and when it runs out, the car stops functioning. We don't have to wait for the car to break down, but just until it runs out of gas. What we know about emergent properties only applies to the evolution of living organisms. What emergent properties can be used to explain how inanimate materials become a living organism? Perhaps, like the car, that property comes from something that is not material make -up of the organism. Not that it would disprove the existence of an afterlife, but if scientists create a totally living organism they will definitely get my attention. Regardless of what you may think, I not at all closed to science.

[Esquilax]

For the car, the ingredient that makes the car function is gasoline. That product is not part of the car, and when it runs out, the car stops functioning. We don't have to wait for the car to break down, but just until it runs out of gas.

Gasoline isn't a component of a car... because? Seriously, why can't it be considered a part of a car? Yeah, it runs out and you need to replace it, but you need to do that for every other part of the car too, or have you just never had to replace your tires?

What we know about emergent properties only applies to the evolution of living organisms. What emergent properties can be used to explain how inanimate materials become a living organism? Perhaps, like the car, that property comes from something that is not material make -up of the organism.

Do you ever have any positive evidence for your claims, or are your beliefs truly so negative and devoid of content that the only way you can think of to demonstrate them is to poke holes in everyone else's ideas?

Not that it would disprove the existence of an afterlife, but if scientists create a totally living organism they will definitely get my attention. Regardless of what you may think, I not at all closed to science.

So there's no way to falsify what you believe? You'll throw up these big "science hasn't done this yet!" as though it's some showstopper argument in favor of your position, but you just admitted that you wouldn't take science actually doing that thing as evidence against your position. What's the point?

[Chas]

What we know about emergent properties only applies to the evolution of living organisms. What emergent properties can be used to explain how inanimate materials become a living organism?

Um, no.

Take a metal that would explosively burn your mouth and gas that if inhaled would chemically burn your airways and could kill you.
When these are combined, you experience salt. The properties of NaCl are emergent properties not contained in either sodium or chlorine.

Take several elements, combine them in particular compounds, structure them in particular ways, and you get life. Life is an emergent property not contained in those elements.

Perhaps, like the car, that property comes from something that is not material make -up of the organism. Not that it would disprove the existence of an afterlife, but if scientists create a totally living organism they will definitely get my attention. Regardless of what you may think, I not at all closed to science.

It is good that you are not closed to science because you have some learning to do.