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Thumpalumpacus · March 8, 2015 at 3:55 am

Norman Humann · March 8, 2015 at 4:04 am

Always late to the party. What are we doing? And where's the weed?

Anomalocaris · March 8, 2015 at 4:22 am

(March 7, 2015 at 10:46 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Stalinism is slightly better because at least it uses force to implement marxism, since there is no other way to implement such an ideology. Russia grew with Stalin despite the atrocities, they came close to the US during the cold war.

Maoism on the other hand was a complete disaster.

Also, Stalin's idea of nationalist communism was more realistic since communism would never spread to the whole world. It was basically a mix between nation + tradition and collectivism, communism. Interesting for scholars

Not quite. Maoism created the foundation upon which modern China is built. Modern China is in most ways a more robust power than soviet Russia. Admittedly modern China turned its back on Maoism. But without the foundation of Maoism, it would not have taken off in the first place. Maoism may not have achieved what it wanted to achieve through the means it intended to use to achieve it, but it may well have laid the foundation for achieving those ends anyway through other means.

Also, stalin's nationalist communism was intended to spread to the whole world by unilateral force of the Slavic russian Soviet Union. It failed. Classical communism was meant to spread to the whole world by spontaneous worker's revolution. It too failed. But it is clear the Stalinist model of one state against the world and perfailing against the world is much longer odds shot.

**robvalue** · March 8, 2015 at 4:30 am

I love Satan.

**Spooky** · March 8, 2015 at 8:45 am

Communism looks great on paper. Introduce the human element and everything goes to shit.

My .02

Gawdzilla · March 8, 2015 at 9:12 am

(March 8, 2015 at 8:45 am)Spooky Wrote: Communism looks great on paper. Introduce the human element and everything goes to shit.

My .02

"Hothouse" economies are all like that.

**vorlon13** · March 8, 2015 at 10:23 am

Read about Ananias and Sapphira in the Bible, communism can't be all bad if the Christian God is willing to smote slackers that don't do it right.

Thinking

**Faith No More** · March 8, 2015 at 11:14 am

(March 8, 2015 at 1:09 am)superAtheist Wrote: LOL - I find this forum is just like the liberal movement.

Liberals = "We are tolerant to others, so long as you believe in our belief only"

Atheistforums.org = "we are tolerant to others, so long as you believe in our belief only"

They ban anyone who makes an intelligent argument about the faith of Atheism. It's gotten to the point that I"m starting to think my atheism deserves a church and a pope and our followers need to be baptised. That's how butthurt atheist friends of mine get when we argue with a theist.

This just proves the point I made in the other thread about atheist hostility. You can only suffer through so much stupidity before all you can respond with is...

**CapnAwesome** · March 8, 2015 at 11:52 am

(March 8, 2015 at 8:45 am)Spooky Wrote: Communism looks great on paper. Introduce the human element and everything goes to shit.

My .02

I think it's funny when people say this. I hear it often. What does something 'looking good on paper' even mean if the ideas are not good enough to apply to real life? Also did you guys know that communism was not the first system to attempt the abolition of private property and shared wealth etc etc? In the 1600s anabaptists seized a town in Germany with the promise of many proto-communist ideas. You know what happened? They quickly became a corrupt dictatorship that murdered opposing ideas within their own system. Ever since I've heard about that (and you can listen to it on the amazing Hardcore History podcast) I've wondered if the two things are somehow linked, since it seems to happen every time it's tried.

Thumpalumpacus · March 8, 2015 at 2:49 pm

When something "looks good on paper", it means that it makes reasonable sense when you think about it, but that it doesn't take into account one or more subtle facts which change the whole thing. A football play might look good on the chalkboard spelt out in Xs and Os, but it doesn't take into account things like the relative sizes and speed of opposing players, endurance, or desire to win at the moment the play is run.

I think it was Moltke the Elder who wrote that no plan survives contact with the enemy. This is a similar phenomenon.

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