Atheism and vegetarianism

[The Omnissiunt One]

Yes that's exactly what it is.

If it's just their opinion, then it counts for nothing, as your name suggests.

But they can still voice it and effect others. And the majority opinion (based on nothing or not) can have a lot of effect on people and society. Look at democracy.

My point is that people aren't likely to listen to them if they just voice their opinions. We have to have some principles upon which we can agree, and from which we can conduct rational ethical debate.

[Edwardo Piet]

My point is that people aren't likely to listen to them if they just voice their opinions.

Phew. Are you sure? Not quite my experience at all. I think that so often people go with a majority opinion as if that is testimony to the truth of the opinion, without having even evaluated it themselves. I know so many people who act as if the truth can be voted on. They think for themselves too of course, but when unsure many people just commit to something, they don't suspend judgement.

I think that often a minority with strong reasoning can win over an irrational majority.... but it can also often go the other way and the sheep eat the shepherds.

[The Omnissiunt One]

My point is that people aren't likely to listen to them if they just voice their opinions.

Phew. Are you sure? Not quite my experience at all. I think that so often people go with a majority opinion as if that is testimony to the truth of the opinion, without having even evaluated it themselves. I know so many people who act as if the truth can be voted on. They think for themselves too of course, but when unsure many people just commit to something, they don't suspend judgement.

I think that often a minority with strong reasoning can win over an irrational majority.... but it can also often go the other way and the sheep eat the shepherds.

You're probably right, but moral nihilists probably don't hold majority views generally, and they're certainly not likely to persuade anyone of their views who doesn't agree.

[Edwardo Piet]

But moral nihilist can make the same assertions as anybody else. And for people who don't need them to be backed up (gullible people), it makes no difference.

Besides, as far as a moral nihilist is concerned, no one else can back any moral claims up either.

[The Omnissiunt One]

Which is why I reject moral nihilism. It gets us nowhere. People either make groundless assertions, or deny the existence of morality altogether.

[Edwardo Piet]

If you don't believe in objective morals then in what sense are you not a moral nihilist?

[The Omnissiunt One]

I suppose I am a meta-ethical nihilist, but not a normative one. In other words, I accept that moral statements don't refer to anything real, but I don't reject morality and moral discussion in real life. Morality is a convenient, and necessary, fiction.

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm sure that's the case for many moral nihilists. A lot of them merely don't know the labels like you do.

[The Omnissiunt One]

It seems that a lot of people are moral nihilists when it suits them, and they can't respond to an argument except by denying that morality exists.Then, when it comes to another issue, they're perfectly happy to accept morality.

[Scarface]

It's absurd to say that there's a link between atheism and being vegetarian. They have nothing at all to do with each other.