Pascal's Wager Revisited

[Cyberman]

Exactly. I'm actually okay with the idea of eternal life, as long as it comes with the option of being able to end it any time I want.

[Esquilax]

"Wonders are many, and none is more wonderful than man. … Cunning beyond fancy's dream is the fertile skill which brings him, now to evil, now to good." -- Antigone

You want to look at the world from the point of view other than that of a human being? Do tell me how to turn into a frog, so I may personally experience what "being a frog feels like."

---

If you admit you don't know what it's like to be any other form of life, then you also have no basis for the presumption that human experience is necessarily superior.

[datc]

I am explicitly not conceiving of the next life as an external reward for this one but as a natural outcome of one's search for virtue and happiness in this one. If I am hungry and make a sandwich for myself, is the sandwich a "reward" or a consequence and consummation of previous work?

I see no reason to see the next life as a natural outcome of this one. The natural outcome of this life appears to be death and no more.

Alright then.

Suppose you are a young guy who just got his Bachelor's degree in, say, computer science. Your whole life is ahead of you, full of plan and prospects and excitement. You go to Florida to unwind from the stress of your studies and exams. It's all nice and restful, until one day you are swimming in the ocean, and everything seems irie, mon, and then a shark bites off your head. In your opinion, is that f***ing all?

[Iroscato]

"Wonders are many, and none is more wonderful than man. … Cunning beyond fancy's dream is the fertile skill which brings him, now to evil, now to good." -- Antigone

You want to look at the world from the point of view other than that of a human being? Do tell me how to turn into a frog, so I may personally experience what "being a frog feels like."

Just because we happen to be the dominant species of the planet, that doesn't make us particularly special in the grand scheme of things. There may be worlds out there, and statistical probability indicates there probably are, with species more intelligent, more peaceful, and more imaginative than ours. It's not like we represent some sort of pinnacle of evolution, we just happen to dominate this one particular world out of the countless trillions out there that may harbour life.

---

I see no reason to see the next life as a natural outcome of this one. The natural outcome of this life appears to be death and no more.

Alright then.

Suppose you are a young guy who just got his Bachelor's degree in, say, computer science. Your whole life is ahead of you, full of plan and prospects and excitement. You go to Florida to unwind from the stress of your studies and exams. It's all nice and restful, until one day you are swimming in the ocean, and everything seems irie, mon, and then a shark bites off your head. In your opinion, is that f***ing all?

Yes. That is life, that is reality. Unfair? Absolutely. And yet the world keeps on spinning.

[Esquilax]

Alright then.

Suppose you are a young guy who just got his Bachelor's degree in, say, computer science. Your whole life is ahead of you, full of plan and prospects and excitement. You go to Florida to unwind from the stress of your studies and exams. It's all nice and restful, until one day you are swimming in the ocean, and everything seems irie, mon, and then a shark bites off your head. In your opinion, is that f***ing all?

Yes. What reason do we have to think there would be any more? Because that being all is unsatisfying?

[datc]

If you admit you don't know what it's like to be any other form of life, then you also have no basis for the presumption that human experience is necessarily superior.

I admit it, but the conclusion does not follow, because it's pretty obvious to me that plants and non-human animals are profoundly stupid.

"Behaviorism proposes to study human behavior according to the methods developed by animal and infant psychology. It seeks to investigate reflexes and instincts, automatisms and unconscious reactions. But it has told us nothing about the reflexes that have built cathedrals, railroads, and fortresses, the instincts that have produced philosophies, poems, and legal systems, the automatisms that have resulted in the growth and decline of empires, the unconscious reactions that are splitting atoms." -- Theory and History

[Silver]

"Behaviorism proposes to study human behavior according to the methods developed by animal and infant psychology. It seeks to investigate reflexes and instincts, automatisms and unconscious reactions. But it has told us nothing about the reflexes that have built cathedrals, railroads, and fortresses, the instincts that have produced philosophies, poems, and legal systems, the automatisms that have resulted in the growth and decline of empires, the unconscious reactions that are splitting atoms." -- Theory and History

So you're going to cherry pick science the way you do the bible? No wonder theists are retards.

[Iroscato]

If you admit you don't know what it's like to be any other form of life, then you also have no basis for the presumption that human experience is necessarily superior.

I admit it, but the conclusion does not follow, because it's pretty obvious to me that plants and non-human animals are profoundly stupid.

"Behaviorism proposes to study human behavior according to the methods developed by animal and infant psychology. It seeks to investigate reflexes and instincts, automatisms and unconscious reactions. But it has told us nothing about the reflexes that have built cathedrals, railroads, and fortresses, the instincts that have produced philosophies, poems, and legal systems, the automatisms that have resulted in the growth and decline of empires, the unconscious reactions that are splitting atoms." -- Theory and History

Dolphins and some apes are nearly as intelligent as humans. Some species of birds display aspects of intelligence and creativity equal or even exceeding that of human toddlers. Several species of ape including chimps and orang-utans are capable of learning sign language. Ravens are proven to be fantastic problem solvers. Many, many animals have primitive language systems. You need to read more books and do more research before you come on here spewing about stupidity, my friend.

[The Valkyrie]

I see no reason to see the next life as a natural outcome of this one. The natural outcome of this life appears to be death and no more.

Alright then.

Suppose you are a young guy who just got his Bachelor's degree in, say, computer science. Your whole life is ahead of you, full of plan and prospects and excitement. You go to Florida to unwind from the stress of your studies and exams. It's all nice and restful, until one day you are swimming in the ocean, and everything seems irie, mon, and then a shark bites off your head. In your opinion, is that f***ing all?

Yes.

It doesn't matter your age, your skills, your gender or your religion.

Dead is dead.

Is it fair for the young man you mentioned to die early?  No.  But then, is it fair for someone to be eaten away by cancer whatever their age?  No.

No one has said life is fair.

[datc]

Exactly. I'm actually okay with the idea of eternal life, as long as it comes with the option of being able to end it any time I want.

Or rather we should say: the fact that eternal life, if it is to be lived forever, must always be worth living (for otherwise, since in infinite time, all possibilities are realized, including that of suicide if it is at all possible), entails that the pleasures of heaven and paradise are infinite and in particular, both God and creation can never be exhausted; there will always be fun new things to experience or contemplate.