What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Catholic_Lady]

Parker Tan, I know you don't like what he wrote, but do you really think that kind of treatment was warranted?

Perhaps not, but try not to concern yourself with controlling other people's tone. That's my job.

Gotcha. Sorry about that!

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Just to clarify, when I say "teaches" I don't literally mean they go around in groups and tell kids not to have sex lol. It just means that if you open up the Catechism, under sexual morality, it will explain that sex is meant for husband and wife. I'm not talking about abstinence only education in schools. I agree that they should be objectively taught about birth control.

You are directly in opposition to the Catholic Church on that.  The Catholic approach to this issue is to insist on abstinence only education and to deny reality:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/educ...ntext.html

I am aware that many people in the Church are advocates of abstinence only programs. However, there is no Catholic law that says "thou must support abstinence only programs." Lol. This can be a matter of opinion. I am not going against Church laws by having this opinion. So long as I don't condone premarital sex amongst teens, I may still have the opinion that they can objectively be taught about contraception.

[The Grand Nudger]

Actually there is...would you like me to quote the catechism?  Abstinence is the -only- church approved position on the issue that a catholic can advance while remaining true to the decrees of the church.  Period.  All that may be taught about contraception -other than- abstinence is that it is sinful and disgusting to god.  Anything else is entirely, unequivocally, in-arguably...infallibly.......un-catholic.

[FatAndFaithless]

But you still think it's immoral to use contraception period, both in premarital sex (which is a double morality whammy) and married sex?

[abaris]

The Church does not teach "hey kids, go have sex before marriage, but don't use condoms!". The Church teaches "Hey kids, don't have sex until marriage." (They should, of course go a lot more into detail than that when speaking to kids, but you get my point).

You're adressing first world problems here. Even looking at it from that perspective, kids being kids and having needs won't heed the advice.

But it's developing countries and the Third world where it really gets harmful. Aids is rampant in certain parts of Africa and so it spreads even more, since condoms aren't used and humans being humans don't get abstinent all over sudden. At the same time overpopulation in regions where they don't have enough water or food is getting a real problem. Having many kids is part of the culture and without educating the people on contraception it only worsens the problem. It also leads to women being pregnant year after year, thereby endangering the lives of these already malnutritioned persons.

[Catholic_Lady]

In my opinion, the Church.  
...2000 years of theologians and philosophers constantly studying the bible, studying the culture of the time, trying to gain understanding, etc.

Question, CL. How do theologians know anything ?

Sure, Neim.

Same way as the rest of us. Years of study and research.

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But you still think it's immoral to use contraception period, both in premarital sex (which is a double morality whammy) and married sex?

In married sex, yes. In premarital sex, it doesn't make a difference.

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The Church does not teach "hey kids, go have sex before marriage, but don't use condoms!". The Church teaches "Hey kids, don't have sex until marriage." (They should, of course go a lot more into detail than that when speaking to kids, but you get my point).

You're adressing first world problems here. Even looking at it from that perspective, kids being kids and having needs won't heed the advice.

But it's developing countries and the Third world where it really gets harmful. Aids is rampant in certain parts of Africa and so it spreads even more, since condoms aren't used and humans being humans don't get abstinent all over sudden. At the same time overpopulation in regions where they don't have enough water or food is getting a real problem. Having many kids is part of the culture and without educating the people on contraception it only worsens the problem. It also leads to women being pregnant year after year, thereby endangering the lives of these already malnutritioned persons.

You are correct that the Catholics out in Africa helping people and aiding the poor are not out there passing out condoms. Nonetheless, can we still be grateful that they are out there helping the poor, even though they are not providing contraception to kids? 

I mean, that's more than either of us are doing lol. At least at this time.

I say this because I don't really agree that it should be right to bash people who are helping others because they are failing to do one thing that you would be doing. At least they're out there doing something.

[Whateverist]

Catholic Lady, I wonder if you've heard this one?  We all think its a hoot and you seem to have a good sense of humor so enjoy.  (Hope you're not offended.)

https://youtu.be/zQ36S3d1CaU

Well to answer your question, I have never heard it before.

I do like to think I have a good sense of humor, but to be honest with you, I actually don't find this funny at all lol, no offense.

I don't enjoy profane mockery of something that is so sacred to me and close to my heart. I think anyone would agree on that, when applied to themselves.

Okey dokey. Swing and a miss. No more profane mockery it is then. And now you know just how puerile my sense of humor can run. I'll just go back and stand in the corner some more now.

[Crossless2.0]

At C_L: Years of study and research in some branch of science will yield a substantial amount of knowledge concerning whatever branch of science and specialty therein is studied. Same for history. Same for mathematics. Same for music theory, literature, mechanical engineering, etc.

What actual knowledge will a theologian have gained from years of study if the subject itself has no discernible referent? If I spend 30 years studying theology, would you expect me to be able to demonstrate a god any more ably than the sad examples of failure we see here every day? If not, why not?

Theology is not just philosophy's idiot half-brother. It is mental masturbation, pure and simple. An advanced degree in this 'subject' might as well state "Expert in sand castles in the sky and other bullshit" on the diploma.

[Longhorn]

Question, CL. How do theologians know anything ?

Sure, Neim.

Same way as the rest of us. Years of study and research.

Just call me Vic. Less awkward.

Research and study....of what? The bible?

How do the authors of the bible know anything?

[abaris]

I say this because I don't really agree that it should be right to bash people who are helping others because they are failing to do one thing that you would be doing. At least they're out there doing something.

But it comes with a price tag attached and I'm saying that even more about evangelicals whereas organisations like doctors without borders only have the well being of their charges in mind. It's trying to cash in while handing out. And that's not an attitude I admire.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, pages and pages and pages of this...and of course the question has already been asked...but here we go again.  What have you learned about how we know what -is- good, and how does that play out against this "god enhanced" method you purportedly use but are incapable -of- or unwilling -to- explain?

What do you know -now-, that you didn't know when you initially asked?