What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Catholic_Lady]

Well to answer your question, I have never heard it before.

I do like to think I have a good sense of humor, but to be honest with you, I actually don't find this funny at all lol, no offense.

I don't enjoy profane mockery of something that is so sacred to me and close to my heart. I think anyone would agree on that, when applied to themselves.

Okey dokey.  Swing and a miss.  No more profane mockery it is then.  And now you know just how puerile my sense of humor can run.  I'll just go back and stand in the corner some more now.

Hahaha! It's ok. Don't worry about it. You have been very kind to me.

---

Can you agree that saving sex for marriage prevents pregnancy?

If you don't follow the teaching to save sex for marriage, obviously you are fair game with out of wedlock pregnancy. I'm not sure what your post is supposed to be telling me.

Are you kidding?

Not having sex prevents pregnancy.
Telling people not to have sex makes them have more sex. It doesn't prevent pregnancy.


Mmmmmmkay?

To be fair, I don't think that teaching abstinence until marriage actually makes people go out and have sex who otherwise wouldn't have.

I know that to most people it probably doesn't make a difference.

But it does depend on the person. It did make a difference to me, my husband, and many other friends of mine. And I am very grateful for it.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yes, Parkers Tan. Please read carefully. I addressed this.

No, you didn't. You passed off a slipshod insinuation that, aside from being inaccurate, is unfair.

Thank you for your donations, btw.

I did it for myself, not your thanks. I remember one time a lady came in, with two kids in tow, and after hitting the other aisles in the food bank got to mine -- the dessert and sweets aisle, the last one. As we ended the transaction, she thanked me, and I in turn thanked her. She looked at me, confused, and asked why I was thanking her, because she'd done nothing. "Oh, no," I replied, pointing to my chest. "You've helped me too, you don't know the half of it."

Even in selfishness, goodness can be achieved. And even in charity, one can benefit oneself. This horseshit about an afterlife being needed for morality is only applicable to those people who need a whip on their back. I work for carrots, and I can find benefits in this life that you don't seem to understand.

So spare me this line about goodness coming from your god.

[Thumpalumpacus]

It also looks an awful lot like deceit.  Our catholic friend can't seem to agree with herself from one page to the next.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Parker Tan, I know you don't like what he wrote, but do you really think that kind of treatment was warranted?

He shouldn't have generalized you with the other atheists of this blog, but don't you think you too sometimes generalize Christians with other Christians of this blog?

Firstly, no, I don't generalize to the Christians on this blog. I treat each and every one of you as the individuals that you are.

Secondly, when someone quotes a post of mine, and then lays an accusation of "hypocrisy", then they goddamned well better have the goods on me. He called me a hypocrite, but couldn't cite an instance because I didn't post in the thread he linked.

He laid a false charge. Maybe you're nice and sweet, but I'm not. I make change in the coin tendered. Huggy is a dishonest shithead who isn't worth a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, and I give him the treatment he deserves ... and doles out, except that I'm honest. Would you like it if I quoted you, and then linked to a post from someone else to buttress my charge of hypocrisy? No, you wouldn't.

I don't hide my displeasure, especially when it's a cunt like Huggy involved. He wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of an honest man. Trust me on this.

[Catholic_Lady]

Yes, Parkers Tan. Please read carefully. I addressed this.

No, you didn't.  You passed off a slipshod insinuation that, aside from being inaccurate, is unfair.

You may have missed it. Copied and pasted, here is what I said at the end of the post:

"Of course, you don't need to believe in afterlife for that, but it can help keep things into perspective in the sense that there is much more than just materialistic things of this life. It is what helps me personally."

Also keep in mind the context I say all of this in. I was told that the belief in after life is harmful. I say all this to show how it is not always harmful, and can actually be helpful. I'm not saying all this to try to prove you can only be good if you believe lol.

Thank you for your donations, btw.

I did it for myself, not your thanks. I remember one time a lady came in, with two kids in tow, and after hitting the other aisles in the food bank got to mine -- the dessert and sweets aisle, the last one. As we ended the transaction, she thanked me, and I in turn thanked her. She looked at me, confused, and asked why I was thanking her, because she'd done nothing. "Oh, no," I replied, pointing to my chest. "You've helped me too, you don't know the half of it."

Even in selfishness, goodness can be achieved.  And even in charity, one can benefit oneself.  This horseshit about an afterlife being needed for morality is only applicable to those people who need a whip on their back.  I work for carrots, and I can find benefits in this life that you don't seem to understand.

So spare me this line about goodness coming from your god.

Oh, I know you didn't do it for me.

The thanks was just to show that I acknowledge and appreciate your kind gesture.

Once again, please be careful not to misunderstand me. I never said God or an afterlife is needed for doing good. I'm actually surprised that after such long discussions, you would still think I believe that. But that is probably me fault.

---

It also looks an awful lot like deceit.  Our catholic friend can't seem to agree with herself from one page to the next.

I think I missed that post. My apologies. What did I disagree with myself on?

[Jenny A]

Parker Tan, I know you don't like what he wrote, but do you really think that kind of treatment was warranted?

He shouldn't have generalized you with the other atheists of this blog, but don't you think you too sometimes generalize Christians with other Christians of this blog?

I usually try to be pretty polite to most of our resident Christians. I feel their pain at being suddenly in the minority. However, though I generally like people and most people I know are Christian, I find I don't much like many Christians on this forum. The trend in Christians here is towards trolls, though we have and have had many fine exceptions. We also have borderline cases who have come to convert covertly, and become angry, hurt and belligerent in turns when they discover this is not a Christian recruiting group.

Having dealt with Huggy for a few months I have every sympathy with Parker, whether I behave like him or not. If you search Huggy's posts you might reach a similar conclusion.

[Catholic_Lady]

Parker Tan, I know you don't like what he wrote, but do you really think that kind of treatment was warranted?

He shouldn't have generalized you with the other atheists of this blog, but don't you think you too sometimes generalize Christians with other Christians of this blog?

Firstly, no, I don't generalize to the Christians on this blog.  I treat each and every one of you as the individuals that you are.

Secondly, when someone quotes a post of mine, and then lays an accusation of "hypocrisy", then they goddamned well better have the goods on me. He called me a hypocrite, but couldn't cite an instance because I didn't post in the thread he linked.

He laid a false charge.  Maybe you're nice and sweet, but I'm not.  I make change in the coin tendered.  Huggy is a dishonest shithead who isn't worth a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, and I give him the treatment he deserves ... and doles out, except that I'm honest. Would you like it if I quoted you, and then linked to a post from someone else to buttress my charge of hypocrisy?  No, you wouldn't.

I don't hide my displeasure, especially when it's a cunt like Huggy involved. He wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of an honest man. Trust me on this.

I still don't agree that his post warranted the vile name calling, but that's just MHO.

You've never made any statements like "Christians are hypocrites or had any preconceived notions of what to expect from one, etc? I apologize for assuming. I just figured you had, because the vast majority of us have or do generalize at times.

[Thumpalumpacus]

No, you didn't.  You passed off a slipshod insinuation that, aside from being inaccurate, is unfair.

You may have missed it. Copied and pasted, here is what I said at the end of the post:

"Of course, you don't need to believe in afterlife for that, but it can help keep things into perspective in the sense that there is much more than just materialistic things of this life. It is what helps me personally."

What makes you think I don't have other, metamaterialistic considerations in mind? What stereotypes are you applying that you're not acknowledging?

Also keep in mind the context I say all of this in. I was told that the belief in after life is harmful.

And it is. Belief in an afterlife saps the will to address issues in the here and now. We see such impulses not only in your own faith, but in many religions around the world. The idea that your god will make up for everything in an afterlife excuses evil. The idea that reward comes in the afterlife means that people don't understand how to appreciate those who treat them right in the here and now.

I'm a big believer in the idea of clean accounts. When I do something wrong, I should apologize and ask forgiveness as soon as I recognize things. And when I see the opportunity to do right, I believe it is imperative to act on that opportunity forthwith. This idea that both punishment and reward is delayed for an afterlife not only lacks evidence, but is also derogatory to the good life now.

If it took men to overthrow the Third Reich, whose supporters were Christians, what use is any conception of afterlife at all? The Christian conception of afterlife surely didn't dissuade many Germans from supporting the most evil regime in the 20th Century.

I say all this to show how it is not always harmful, and can actually be helpful. I'm not saying all this to try to prove you can only be good if you believe lol.

Oh, I know you didn't do it for me.

The thanks was just to show that I acknowledge and appreciate your kind gesture.

Once again, please be careful not to misunderstand me. I never said God or an afterlife is needed for doing good. I'm actually surprised that after such long discussions, you would still think I believe that. But that is probably me fault.

It's not that I think that you believe that -- but rather, that the words you're spouting put across a belief that you not only have abjured here, but that needs to be answered for the lurkers who aren't posting.

I think I missed that post. My apologies. What did I disagree with myself on?
[/quote]

All throughout this thread. I don't have time to read back and link each instance.

[The Grand Nudger]

I missed this earlier, but what helps you to determine the moral status of catholic churches position on contraception?  How do you know what -is- good...or more specifically, what is not...in this instance?

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

(Also..are you beginning to understand our reaction to the OP question...after having been asked it yourself so many times by us, in this thread? What's it like on the other end, for you?)

[Huggy Bear]

Firstly, no, I don't generalize to the Christians on this blog.  I treat each and every one of you as the individuals that you are.

Secondly, when someone quotes a post of mine, and then lays an accusation of "hypocrisy", then they goddamned well better have the goods on me. He called me a hypocrite, but couldn't cite an instance because I didn't post in the thread he linked.

He laid a false charge.  Maybe you're nice and sweet, but I'm not.  I make change in the coin tendered.  Huggy is a dishonest shithead who isn't worth a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, and I give him the treatment he deserves ... and doles out, except that I'm honest. Would you like it if I quoted you, and then linked to a post from someone else to buttress my charge of hypocrisy?  No, you wouldn't.

I don't hide my displeasure, especially when it's a cunt like Huggy involved. He wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of an honest man. Trust me on this.

Incorrect.

I'm referring to the atheists on this forum collectively as "hypocrites"

You hypocrites came out of the woodwork to defend a homosexual (Harvey Milk) having sex with an underage teen, I wonder why you guys can't seem to get behind the homosexuals in the Catholic church.....

The word "hypocrites" and the phrase "you guys", means I wasn't referring to YOU personally.

The reason I brought it up is whenever someone identifies as member of the Catholic church, the first thing "you guys" bring up are the sexual abuses by a small percentage of the priests.... (as if they have anything to do with it) yet the very same people will defend the very same act if you strip away the religious part and leave it at plain homosexuality..