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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 19, 2015 at 7:57 pm
(June 19, 2015 at 7:39 pm)Cato Wrote: (June 19, 2015 at 7:28 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: If true, might it be useful to find a forum where you could chat with folks who might be a little more supportive of your efforts?
Just sayin'.
Randy, people in other forums don't have any more evidence than you do. The fact that evidence is required to justify belief for most of us here is still kicking your ass. All you are offering is camaraderie among those that believe shit without sufficient reason to do so.
People in other forums have more experience of God's presence in their lives than those in this forum.
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 19, 2015 at 8:52 pm
Unfortunately, their experience is no more useful to those who require evidence than your own.
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm
(June 19, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (June 19, 2015 at 7:39 pm)Cato Wrote: Randy, people in other forums don't have any more evidence than you do. The fact that evidence is required to justify belief for most of us here is still kicking your ass. All you are offering is camaraderie among those that believe shit without sufficient reason to do so.
People in other forums have more experience of God's presence in their lives than those in this forum.
And yet, they have no evidence. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 19, 2015 at 9:00 pm
(June 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm)Chas Wrote: (June 19, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: People in other forums have more experience of God's presence in their lives than those in this forum.
And yet, they have no evidence. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
But of course they do.
It's called personal experience.
You know, the same kind of personal experience I can use to prove that unicorns are frolicking in my back yard without providing any evidence whatsoever.
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 19, 2015 at 9:00 pm
(June 17, 2015 at 11:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (June 17, 2015 at 11:22 pm)Rhythm Wrote: LOL< bet you'd never even attempt that bullshit with your utility provider.
"I don't have the payment, but it exists, and whenever you get it, it will be exactly what you require".
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 19, 2015 at 11:57 pm
(June 19, 2015 at 7:18 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (June 19, 2015 at 1:13 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I just want to say I feel for you here.
Meh. I got over it a looooooong time ago. I've never believed and once I realized there was no reason to...
Let's just say life's been much better ever since.
Really, it's why I find the "if you'd only examine the claim" and "if you look with an open mind" arguments to be pure drivel. Been there, done that.
Sounds fair.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 20, 2015 at 1:11 am
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 1:30 am by Ravenshire.)
(June 19, 2015 at 7:28 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (June 19, 2015 at 1:04 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Let's just say I was old enough to see Van Halen live, before the split. What does it even matter? You christers like to claim that anyone who sincerely searches for gawd will find it. I did so, for years. I can't claim I ever actually believed, because I didn't. But, I sure fucking wanted to. Badly
So, you've got a guy who sincerely wanted, and was searching for a sign, and (so you claim) an omnipotent, omniscient gawd that could have given me exactly what I needed in order to believe, yet failed to do so?* Either it doesn't exist or it's as malevolent as described in the old testament.
If true, might it be useful to find a forum where you could chat with folks who might be a little more supportive of your efforts?
Just sayin'. *corrected word usage to more accurately portray what I meant in that quote.
Randy, wouldn't the church I used to attend be even better than a forum?!? Lot's of believers around, lot's of testimony for the love of christ, all that happy horse shit. Or, how 'bout the good christer home I was raised in with all the positive reinforcement (and whitewashing of the "darker" elements of the buy-bull) that entails? If my own parents couldn't convince me gawd was real, even though I wanted to believe it, what in the holy fuck makes you think some fucking christer web forum will work?
I've long since quit caring (or worrying) about a gawd that refuses to show itself (did you even read my post directly above your reply to me?), or more likely, simply isn't there. The evidence doesn't add up, mostly because it's not there either. No, I'm not as lenient in my criteria for evidence as you are. Evidence should be, well, evident. It should also be verifiable, testable and repeatable. None of the crap you've thrown at the wall in hopes something will stick lives up to those criteria.
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 20, 2015 at 9:44 am
(June 19, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: People in other forums have more experience of God's presence in their lives than those in this forum.
Horseshit! You simply have people attributing things in their lives to a non-existent God. If God were real and responsible for every fuzzy feeling and set of car keys found he should be easy to demonstrate. People sitting around sharing ghost stories doesn't make ghosts real no matter how convinced they are.
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 20, 2015 at 2:58 pm
(June 19, 2015 at 8:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Unfortunately, their experience is no more useful to those who require evidence than your own.
(June 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm)Chas Wrote: (June 19, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: People in other forums have more experience of God's presence in their lives than those in this forum.
And yet, they have no evidence. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Guess not. So, until you have personal experience of God, you cannot possibly understand what those who do are talking about.
Hey, this would be interesting to ask the members of this forum:
Have you ever had a personal experience of God that has led you to believe that He does not exist?
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RE: Stump the Christian?
June 20, 2015 at 3:03 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 3:13 pm by Randy Carson.)
(June 20, 2015 at 1:11 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (June 19, 2015 at 7:28 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: If true, might it be useful to find a forum where you could chat with folks who might be a little more supportive of your efforts?
Just sayin'. *corrected word usage to more accurately portray what I meant in that quote.
Randy, wouldn't the church I used to attend be even better than a forum?!? Lot's of believers around, lot's of testimony for the love of christ, all that happy horse shit. Or, how 'bout the good christer home I was raised in with all the positive reinforcement (and whitewashing of the "darker" elements of the buy-bull) that entails? If my own parents couldn't convince me gawd was real, even though I wanted to believe it, what in the holy fuck makes you think some fucking christer web forum will work?
Not necessarily. With your parents and your former Church, there's probably a LOT of baggage that makes being really honest difficult.
The anonymity of the Internet might actually be helpful.
One other question: you posts don't suggest that you are dispassionately pursuing the question of God's existence. Your choice of words indicates that you are anything but objective as an honest scientist would be. For example, you can't even bring yourself to type "some Christian web forum"...no, it has to be "some fucking christer web forum". Why is that?
Quote:I've long since quit caring (or worrying) about a gawd that refuses to show itself (did you even read my post directly above your reply to me?), or more likely, simply isn't there. The evidence doesn't add up, mostly because it's not there either. No, I'm not as lenient in my criteria for evidence as you are. Evidence should be, well, evident. It should also be verifiable, testable and repeatable. None of the crap you've thrown at the wall in hopes something will stick lives up to those criteria.
The criteria you've listed for evidence sounds great for something in a test tube, but not all evidence that you accept in life meets them.
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