Miracle

[robvalue]

No. No, it really isn't. You're just saying it's so amazing, therefor god. It's an argument from incredulity.

[bennyboy]

This is moving away from philosophy and into mindless proselytizing. Recommend relocation to a Religious Bullshit forum.

Can you provide a philosophical base to the scientific facts mentioned in Quran?

lolwut? I can't provide any base or foundation to ANY facts mentioned in the Quran.

Look, you are saying that finding some science in the Quran is a miracle. If it IS a miracle, it's not science, because that's not what science means.

Nuclear bombs, computers, telephones, cars. These are the products of science. If science is God-given, then why didn't Muhammad have a personal jet? Why wasn't he broadcasting his sermons to everyone's hand phones? Why didn't he just shoot his enemies, instead of beheading them with swords? What, God hadn't figured out that science yet? Here's a hint-- if the best knowledge is always shrouded in mystery and metaphor, it's because it's not really that good after all. We have REAL science now-- science that's in the open, that has a clear meaning, that is based on observations rather than mystery and metaphor.

[Iroscato]

Oh wow.

[paulpablo]

I had given you a very good article, which clearly exhibits how people refer to pain in the history. They thought that sense of pain only depends on the brain or heart. However, recent researches show that it is in fact the skin, which contain pain receptors without which a person would not be able to feel pain. Therefore, the previous thought that brain or heart is responsible for pain turned out to be false.

For example, many doctors determine degree of burn by a pinprick. If the patient feels pain, it indicates that the burns are superficial and the pain receptors are intact. However, if the patient does not feel any pain that pinprick supposed to cause, it indicates that it is a deep burn and the pain receptors have been destroyed.

Now link this example with the verse of Quran:

“Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”
An Nisaa (4)
-Verse 56-

This verse gives clear indication that roasted skin is a dead skin (no pain receptors) for that reason God will give fresh skin to the transgressor to continue his/her punishment.

Compare the article with this verse and contemplate whether the author of this verse was a man living in 7th century or not.

Well first of all the brain is responsible for the sensation of pain along with the skin, the skin senses the pain, it transmits signals to the spinal cord and then into the brain.
 
look at the list of info given in the quran about skin and burning.

1) Burning hurts.
2) burning destroys skin to the point where it no longer feels pain.

So for the first one, yes I think a person living in the 7th century knew that burning hurt.
And for the second one, well people still suffered from 3rd and 4th degree burns in the 7th century, so all they would have to know are the symptoms of 3rd and 4th degree burns.

And I'm actually giving the quran the benefit of the doubt that it is talking about the skin feeling no pain once it has suffered 3rd or 4th degree burns.  It actually might just be talking about the skin being roasted then being replaced before the person dies of the 4th degree burns they are suffering.

[The Valkyrie]

"My religion is rational! It is SO rational I'm going to blow myself up along with as many others as I can!"

[robvalue]

I had a thought about this...

From a religious point of view, does science represent truth (our best understanding of truth) or not?

If so, then all these ridiculous creation stories are out the window. We know how the earth came about, and except for that tricky abiogenesis part (which we appear to be on the brink of cracking without any appeal to the supernatural) we know how life evolved into us. No gods required anywhere. "But, but..." Yeah I know. God was somehow involved still in some undisclosed fashion. Unfalsifiable and useless extra assumption. If you're just going to assume goddidit from the start, why have a discussion?

If science does not represent truth, then why are we comparing it to the Quran?

I suppose science represents truth where convenient, is the answer.

[paulpablo]

Additionally I love the fact that the verses which are considered to be miracles in the quran are the most horrible brutal non sense.

They make god look the same as a man who says if you reject what I say I'll blow your fucking legs off with this shotgun I have underneath this cloth then torture you repeatedly.  But worse.

First the quran says god creates a man. 

Sahih International

O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -

 Then he makes a man disbelieve in Islam by misguiding them.

Sahih International

So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

(This verse is also consider to be a scientific miracle)

Sahih International

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

Followed by this scientific miracle. You don't even have to do anything bad.  Just disbelieve Muhammad's verses, after being misguided by allah, and the punishment is being thrown into the fire and repeatedly roasted.

[LostLocke]

I suppose science represents truth where convenient, is the answer.

Pretty much that.
Where science agrees with the Quran/Bible, then it is 'real' science.
Where science disagrees with the Quran/Bible it is lies or false or the work of the devil.

[ignoramus]

Isn't the only reason we have science is to separate the bullshit from the truth?
Religion and science by definition are natural enemies.

Science will win in the end, simply because it's still true, whether we acknowledge it or not.
Even long after man has died off.

[robvalue]

Exactly. That is precisely why we have science. That's why the truth emerges, and scientific understanding converges. On the other hand, religion is all untestable bullshit so there is no seperation possible. It's "truth" diverges, even within the same religion.

Everything vaguely complicated that works, works because of some sort of science. Nothing works on religious twoddle. It has no power in reality.