Can an atheist be ethical like theists

[Longhorn]

We have people defending rape, murder and slavery on this very forum in order to preserve the idea that their religion is "good".

And they are objectively morally right!!

[Dystopia]

I sincerely disagree with this - Prostitutes make choices as much as people who flip burgers do - Which is to say there's little choice involved.

Perhaps in some cases.  Ones I've talked to, in areas it's legal, mostly do so by choice.

An alarming factor in Holland is that a big percentage of prostitutes are foreigners/immigrants which either points out to organized crime syndicates interfering and using the law in their favor to profit or - Alternatively - That it's a profession chosen mostly by people who need money and don't have any other options, and it pays off quite well - Last decade in the Netherlands you had several cases of criminal prosecutions related to trafficking of people into fully legal prostitution and coercing them to do it - These people all previously said they did a rational choice, so I wouldn't trust what people in the business say but what facts tell us. I'm not making an argument against prostitution, it's fine by me, I'm just saying calling it a choice is a little of wishful thinking.

Arguably, having sex with people belongs to our most intimate personal sphere and doing it with whoever demands as long as they pay must be somewhat difficult and hard at least at first - Maybe not physically, but psychologically. As a male, I've considered prostitution for money (I'm not kidding), and while the pay is good, the thought of having any stranger invading my sexual intimacy is difficult to process. I don't see why this should be different for other people who are already in the business - Doing sex work is not the same as driving a cab or staying on a desk all day, it requires some weird psychological commitment, and that's something governments should start taking into account.

Legalizing prostitution should mean legalizing work for those who truly want it and are perfectly comfortable with it, but it can also mean legalizing abuse and calling pimps entrepreneurs and respectable businessmen when backstage they abuse workers.

[The Valkyrie]

Unfortunately that is always a danger, people smuggling being what it is.

I can, of course, only speak from what I've encountered in Oz and NZ where prostitution, for the most part, is legal.

The houses and the girls are registered and undergo stringent medical checks.

I once asked one who came into the A&E I used to work in if she felt compelled to work in the sex industry. She stated that she was both a stripper and an escort, and she preferred the latter because it helped her fulfil some of her fantasies (yes, hussy, women enjoy sex and have sexual fantasies, too). Of course, the money didn't hurt, either.

[huss88ein]

So these prostitutes are doing it for fun not money you're saying! !!!!!

Ok if that the case then would u accept that one of your relatives is doing it and how would you feel if your mom or sis etc is doing it?????

This technique is called argument from emotion, and it's designed to bypass the logical centers of the brain and gain a knee-jerk reaction to what's said. The idea here is that I'm supposed to be distressed or insulted by the idea of my mother or sister becoming a whore.

But I'll bite. Let's play this hypothetical out. If my mom wanted to become a professional prostitute and there were absolutely nothing I could do to stop her, would I want her to do it in a setting where prostitution is legal, or illegal? Well, in a situation where it's illegal, my mother might catch a disease, get beat up by a john, get in trouble with the police, get involved with an abusive pimp...the possibilities are as ugly as they are endless. With legalized prostitution, there is some level of regulation and supervision involved, so I could be at least somewhat assured that my mother had access to a safe, well-paying work environment with good employers and Johns who are monitored for health and behavior. I would vastly prefer this situation to the previous one.

So yeah...if my mom decided she wanted to have some fun and make some money doing it, I'd prefer she did it in a setting where prostitution is legal. What, are you saying you want your mom to get beat up by a cracked out pimp? You have to think if these things.

You saying they're nor forced is not precise because in most societies women are forced to because of money and if they're then they are objectified and trated like anything you buy in a shop . Women are not an object in islam and they are treated equally to men in everything they have the same obligations and judged the same way men are .

Ok, first off, that's false equivocation. Not all prostitution is the same. Forcing someone into prostitution is a violation of their consent, and that's what makes that wrong.

Second, no, women are not treated equally in Islam. Do we really need to debate this? I mean really?

Even it has erased the previous ideas that having a baby boy is better than a girl , you must just read about the prophet(pbuh ) saying your mother then your mother then your mother then your dad thats praising women for me not defending prostitution.

Um...what?

I didn't mean any insult all what I wanted u to do is to put ur self in their shoes , prostitutes are people and they have families too you know.

As for ur rational explanation it is a little hippocracy to feel bad about something and not doing anything against it in the same time if you don't like it then it is refused from ur point of view but because of the lack of a rational explanation for that so you submit to her well which is not gonna make it less scarring psychologically.

As for islam being just to woman it is something I'm stating from experience in my family everyone is happy and they're all muslims if someone is doing something wrong in another family it is from them not relegion.

As for the last statement it is a hadith u can search it or not it's up to u and it's stating how important is a mother in islam .

[huss88ein]

Ok guys thank u very much I think I've said all that I can say on this topic and to claim that I have more points to make would be lying .

So let's leave it out here and people who read this will be the judge (hopefully in favor of my arguments [emoji6] ).

If anyone at some level wants to adress them more I'll be happy to reply but as I've said before nothing new to offer from my side .

Bye for now maybe in a few days or so I'd love to start an argument about homosexuality hope you participate as usual .

[Iroscato]

Bye for now maybe in a few days or so I'd love to start an argument about homosexuality hope you participate as usual .

Oh, joygasm.

[SofaKingHigh]

It's the thinnest of thin grounds for the religious to try and assert morality stems from their God...so many ways to argue, but with a Muslim it's painfully easy.

Hussein, do you condone paedophila?

[Bob Kelso]

For stater the sense of morality has been rationalized in older societies by a religious foundations and with the absence of these foundations what is forbidding people from being unethical? what is the determinant for right and wrong if not relegion ?

Oh fuck me, really guy? 

Get bent.

[Homeless Nutter]

I sincerely disagree with this - Prostitutes make choices as much as people who flip burgers do - Which is to say there's little choice involved.

Hmmm, that sounds pretty condescending.

As a cook, I can tell you that a great number of people who flip burgers DO make choices.  They may be largely bad choices - which is why many of us flip burgers - but they're choices nonetheless. 

Do rich people have more options? Sure. But that doesn't mean everybody else's lives are "on rails".

[Longhorn]

Bye for now maybe in a few days or so I'd love to start an argument about homosexuality hope you participate as usual .

Oh hell naw. I'm trying to keep my blood pressure down