A message to the Religious

[AFTT47]

Even if it did, you can't call at least 75% of the population, "stupid." Well, you can but it's not a good idea. Those 75% vote and if they're all against you, you're fucked.

I'm not here for votes. I couldn't give two shits if 75% of the population don't like what I'm saying, 75% of the population are wrong.

Well see, you should give two shits because if you build an artificial division with yourself in the small minority camp, and you declare war on the majority camp, you lose. We do have rights to protect us in western countries but the court of public opinion carries alot of power. In the US, an atheist has little hope of winning election to a major public office because of that public opinion. I for one, would like to see that changed. But it will NEVER change if you convince the majority that we are arrogant pricks. And that's all a rant like yours will accomplish. It's certainly not going to sway their opinion regarding religion.

[Napoléon]

And that's all a rant like yours will accomplish. It's certainly not going to sway their opinion regarding religion.

And you know this for fact?

[AFTT47]

And that's all a rant like yours will accomplish. It's certainly not going to sway their opinion regarding religion.

And you know this for fact?

Not for a fact, no. It's pretty much common sense though. Put yourself in their shoes. I'm trying to convince you of something right now and I'm making my best attempt at a rational argument. I don't know if you'll end up buying it or not but if you don't, and I get frustrated and say that you disagree with me because you're an idiot... How are you going to respond to that? I doubt it will make you more receptive to my argument. I suspect that in addition to disagreeing with me, you'll now think I'm an asshole too.

[Napoléon]

Not for a fact, no. It's pretty much common sense though. Put yourself in their shoes. I'm trying to convince you of something right now and I'm making my best attempt at a rational argument. I don't know if you'll end up buying it or not but if you don't, and I get frustrated and say that you disagree with me because you're an idiot... How are you going to respond to that? I doubt it will make you more receptive to my argument. I suspect that in addition to disagreeing with me, you'll now think I'm an asshole too.

Sometimes calling a spade a spade works.

[Dystopia]

You know, I totally get how some people are indoctrinated from birth with bullshit. I totally get that it's not straight forward for some people to figure out. Not everyone has access to the information. But what really grates on my tits is how certain people are so sure about their fucked up convictions that they look down on the people who don't buy into the bull. These same people command respect for their beliefs. These same people expect to be taken seriously. These same people come onto a forum like this, when they literally have access to all the information in the world at their fingertips, and choose to argue this bullshit with people who don't buy it when they could otherwise be enlightening themselves.

Now I know some people come here to 'hear about opposing viewpoints' and all this other hippie free loving shit too. But I don't buy how you can supposedly come onto a forum like this with an "open mind", read and be given access to all this information that literally puts your religion flat on its fucking arse, and still call yourself religious. There's some ulterior shit going on there.

I think some people are genuinely interested and in good faith - You can tell that by the way they argue - I mean, some innocent Christians who think you should love every person on earth (even atheists) come to atheist forums just to discuss the existence of god but they don't actually mean harm or to piss off people - I know some folks reach a point when there's basically no turning back - Just like I've reached a point when, if things stay the same (evidence-wise), I can't believe in any god even if I try to force myself into it, I think there's people who won't stop believing no matter what and we all know some of those. It's confusing to talk to them, but they just refuse to change their minds.

Then there's people who already know anti-theist arguments, know the fallacies in their arguments, and still come here to tell us about how we're angry at god and will burn in hell for all eternity. I can't stand that shit, it pisses me off. Most of my friends believe in some sort of spiritual power, and they're all great people, so obviously I don't think believing in god makes you a moron or retarded - But when you literally think there's talking snakes and flying horses (or pegasus, whatever) it's so bad I can't hold my breath - I give a discount to people who are ignorant and have gone trough so many hardships that they can't stop believing. There are people who have panic  attacks about the thought of no afterlife and they can't stop believing - I wouldn't recommend becoming an atheist if that affects your psychological and mental health.

I have this friend who went trough some disturbing life events like seeing her mom being killed by her dad in the middle of a schizophrenic attack, and she thinks god has helped her trough life's challenges and that's why today she feels better - She's really sweet and always in good faith, but if someone tells her she's imagining things she has panic attacks and starts saying everyone wants her to suffer - It's really though to tell those kind of people "hey you're a moron and god doesn't exist".

I try not to judge people if they're ignorant or if they really need something to hold on to - I can't judge an oncologist who everyday sees children and adults dying horribly and needs to believe there's some sort of afterlife to feel better - I don't know how it's like witnessing people dying without being able to save them, specially innocent people who've harmed nobody, so I can't judge people. But if you have resources, means, a minimum of literacy and still refuse to analyse facts then I can't respect you. I can understand why some people think deism and pantheism is more desirable, but I don't get it why anyone would voluntarily choose Catholicism, Islam or Judaism as a lifestyle.

[Napoléon]

I try not to judge people if they're ignorant or if they really need something to hold on to

Meh, I'm happy to do so. I know what you're saying, some people have traumatic shit happen, some people feel justified in clinging onto bullshit.

Either way, it makes no difference to me. They're still lying to themselves. I'm not a cunt for pointing it out (not saying that's what you were insinuating, just talking generally).


You know, I've had a few things happen recently on this very forum that make me wonder if my approach is a bit too aggressive, or if I'm rude, or if I'm going overboard.

What do I say to that??

"Couldn't give a shit"

I don't exist to be pleasant to everyone else. I don't think respect should be automatically given. I value my own honesty over other people's sensitivities, frankly. If I see something that's bullshit, I'm gonna call it bullshit. I don't buy that just because some people are respectful, they are deserving of respect. I don't buy that anyone is immune to criticism. I don't buy that some people are justified in believing in bollocks, or that they have understandable reasons for doing so and that by molly coddling them we're doing them a favour.

I'm gonna continue to say it as it is. Some people might not like it, but to them I'd say grow up. Deal with it. Sometimes the bare truth is what's important. I try to give that. Fuck being respectful for the sake of being respectful. Religion has long since forsaken any notion of deserving respect IMO.

Likewise, if someone thinks something I'm saying is bullshit, then say so. Don't give me this "I respect your opinion" fluff. Whoopidoo. If everyone respected each other's opinions what would be the point in having one?

[Dystopia]

I don't disagree with anything - I am nicer than the average person you meet in real life because I come from a family where politeness is valued highly (maybe only below honor and loyalty) so even if I tried to be aggressive I'll still sound mildly nice - I don't go out with a headline saying "GOD DOESN'T EXIST FOOLS" or looking for people talking about god just to tell them they're wrong, but yeah if someone says bullshit I'll call it bullshit - I think there's many ways to call bullshit when it's bullshit - I don't need to tell people they're retarded to explain why their view is wrong, I'll only insult someone if the person is really being stupid.

I agree that nothing or no one should be immune to criticism (that includes obviously popular new atheists and I've criticized things said by Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris) - The idea that religion is special and needs protection is irrational and incompatible with free speech - There's nothing in free speech, that I can say or write, that'll stop you from practicing and worshiping your god, and it's not my intention to control what you believe in.

I have a easy time insulting theists when they behave like real morons. If not, I'm ok with them. My girlfriend is a deist, we get along fine. I don't think she's retarded for being a deist.

I think the right word you might be looking for is "tolerance" - You have to tolerate other opinions (it's the law), you needn't respect them - That's a bullshit idea as well. There's many things that I feel bad about, things that disgust me and offend me, but I'm not going to tell people they can't support those things I detest if they want to.

Obviously it would be unproductive for me to tell most of my peers that they're morons because I might risk getting into some heavy fights, but I understand what you're saying.

[rado84]

Sometimes being nice is not the way to go I could probably never write down what you just did because I was raised to be super polite and respectful to people - But I appreciate the work. Kudos.

But there's something else - one's patience is not unlimited and if you've had enough of all the divine bullshit, Napoleon's post is what the bullshit leads to.

[Napoléon]

I don't know whether to count my lucky stars that a theist hasn't yet graced this thread or to be really disappointed. I thought they'd be here like a tramp on hot chips.

[Regina]

I think there's a time and a place.

Honestly I don't care if people are religious, I don't walk around in real life giving this "WHO THE FUCK WANT WAR?!!!" atheist T that I do genuinely think (nobody here) some atheists have. I do think if someone genuinely feels inspired to be a better person by religion, ok good for them.

What offends me is when a Christian or a Muslim (because let's be real, it's damn near always one of those two) comes into my space with their little feelings, and makes something that's really not that deep into a petty drama about "my religion, my views". Disagree with abortion? Ok don't have one. Disagree with gay sex? Ok don't have it. Think you should dress modestly? You put that Grim Reaper garb on. Be as austerely religious as you want to be in your own life choices, go ham. But when you come into other peoples' space and tell them how to live their lives, that's when I have a problem.

Like I said in another thread earlier, there's nothing either of these 2 aforementioned religions have to say that we have never heard before, unless we grew up in the middle of the Amazon. Yet we're still not buying into it, so you reminding us what the rules are for the billionth time isn't going to suddenly make a difference.