Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?

[Minimalist]

If they are holding my future hostage in order to blackmail me into acting a certain way or kissing up to them, that is terrorism and I can't be doing with it.

I don't think you understand what terrorism means.

These days it seems to mean when someone else does something you don't like.

[Tonus]

This is were Pascale Wagar argument kicks in.

This presumes that we can fool God, or that we think God is only interested in appearances.

On the other hand, if God treasures honesty and truth, he will reward those who chose not to acknowledge him without sufficient evidence. In which case, Pascal's Wager would advise that those who do not believe in God should not fake it. We'll get much better rooms at the Heavenly Inn and Roadside Bar because God doesn't like people who fake their devotion in the hopes of a cookie.

Which means that I got to enjoy the freedom of living life on my terms and then God high-fived me as he escorted me to the "Hookers and Blow Suite."

[Excited Penguin]

[...]

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For me, I just can't make sense of there being anything supernatural.  If God existed, that would be natural.  If miracles were a thing, they too would be natural but of a variety not understood by ourselves .. possibly they'd even be beyond our comprehension owing to our limitations.  But that wouldn't make them something other than natural.  We just have to realize that our perceptual/cognitive array is not the gold standard of what is natural.  Everything out there is real and natural.

What I really believe in is the real world, including love and dreams and inspiration and wonder and all the other subjective states arising in our very real and natural brains.  What offends me about the concept of the supernatural is the idea that the real world is only an idea in the divine mind.  As though the real world about which we've learned so much were a facade brought into being on the whim of God.  The idea of miracles as just the setting aside of the real-world divine idea when He finds it less convenient frankly offends me.



I don't reject the idea of gods.  In fact I take them very seriously.  I think they've played a big role in our becoming what we are.  They are definitely part of the real world I am so passionate about.  But I don't think they are entities in their own right.  They live where they have always been, in our psyches.  I have no doubt that consciousness is not simply the conscious mind along with a bunch of noise in the system.  Consciousness need not be and most often is not unitary.  I believe the mind is still fully capable of producing gods right there on board where believers encounter them - and no, I don't think they are just fooling themselves.  In some ways the contributions of the other facets of consciousness create the ground of being which make our conscious lives possible.  In that sense you can call them our creators.  But no gods ever had a hand in creating the physical world.  That sort of literalism should be avoided.

But that said, why become an atheist?  I don't see any reason for it at all.  If you have been raised in a culture that has brought you into a relationship with a God whose presence and company you enjoy, why give that up?  I'd encourage you to avoid literalism in such things but I'm just one more adult in the world same as you.  Do as you like.

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I don't mind your pet theories about consciousness, stupid as they sound, but do try to make a little more sense, please.

Hardly the point, since you won't answer, but do clarify, do you mean to say human consciousness isn't situated only in the brain, but somewhere else at well?


How do you reconcile God with the nature of consciousness: where do you find "God" in the mind? 

Do elaborate on your description of what you think consciousness consists of, and tell us your reasons for believing so, other than introspection coupled with a general education about the brain, if that.

[Foxaèr]

I was taught that God doesn't give us undeniable proof of his existence as a test of faith...those with righteous minds would find him. Joker and any other Catholics, what are your thoughts on this?

It is an obvious apologetic argument meant for the sake of saving religious face.

"Oh, god will not show himself, you must have faith."

The same can be stated for anyone who believes in anything without the proper evidence to support its existence.

If god is capable of proving his existence, yet refuses, then that by extension of logic indicates god is not worthy of worship.

[Fireball]

To the OP, I'd say study comparative religions. You can buy the books (it may only take one) and read them without attending classes at a university. The only difference will be that you don't have to take tests, except in your own mind. I had doubts for many years, and did my best to follow the program- lay volunteering, etc. But in the end analysis, it was difficult to let it go because of the stigma of what I had been told atheists were. If you accept other people's assessment of other people, you'll accept religion, because that's someone else's assessment of the world which could be completely wrong, or made up for some sort of personal gain. Some people believe, and ascend to high standing in a church (lower case, as I don't believe any is a "Church", in the way that the Catholics do).

[Ravenshire]

Nope. Because you openly celebrate when someone gets angry at you.

You have not yet seen me angry.

[Ravenshire]

All I'll say is that when I was having serious doubts, I prayed to God to show me in a way that I would know for sure that he is real.  Now some 16 year later nothing has ever happened.  So I can safely conclude that either:  A.  God doesn't want me to believe in him, or B.  God doesn't exist.

This is were Pascale Wagar argument kicks in.

Where are you going to place your bet?If you place it with God, you lose nothing, even if it turns out that God does not exist. But if you place it against God, and you are wrong and God does exist, you lose everything: God, eternity, heaven, infinite gain. "Let us assess the two cases: if you win, you win everything, if you lose, you lose nothing."~Peter Kreeft

Unless you're placing that bet on every god it is nothing more than yammering that makes you feel better about betting on your particular gawd. Pascal was a fool when it came to religious belief for even entertaining the idea that we can choose what we believe and his wager requires us to do exactly that.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

You're hanging out in the wrong or right place. I ain't here to judge.

Statistics are pretty uniform regarding this particular matter. 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...ith-group/

That's just one, but googling "atheist gender gap" finds lots of similar information.

Oh Allah above you actually did some research into it. Lol. Good to know.

[AceBoogie]

It's not a matter of should or should not. But I think you would be well served to be honest with yourself about why you became a Roman Catholic, why you believe in a god that cannot be proven to exist, and why the Holy Bible is a book you think you should learn how to live from. Once you explore those things, honestly, I think you will realize that maybe you are an atheist.

[rado84]

Before I begin, I ask that you please avoid being hostile or anything. I'm a Roman Catholic, but I feel like many people of faith immediately jump to degrading atheists as people, rather than trying to understand their mindset. I'm heavily confused right now, and am asking both Catholic and atheist sites for their mindsets. Obviously, Catholics are going to defend Catholicism, while atheists are going to defend atheism. I ask that you please be civil about it, as this could be life-changing for me.


I've been questioning how to improve in my Roman Catholic faith lately...but this morning I came to the realization that I never really questioned my faith itself. I was lightly raised Catholic and recently took it upon myself to grow closer to God. Now, for probably the first time in my life, I feel like I'm genuinely considering atheism as a possibility.

From what I understand, atheists do not accept the possibility of a supernatural being, and restrict themselves to our "natural" human thinking. Previously I thought that atheists are simply conditioned by society to the point where they are unable to "rationally" believe in a supernatural being...God doesn't allow us universally undeniable proof of his existence as a test of faith. Now, though, I feel like it's impossible to tell whether that mindset is correct, or whether atheists are correct in their focusing on our natural human mindsets. I do feel like I've felt something while praying throughout the past. 

The other night, for example, I was planning on praying for about fifteen minutes, but felt oddly calm and ended up taking about an hour. Now I feel like that could have just been because I was comfortable, and my mind was "making things up" as I was more convinced in my faith.


Atheists, why do you reject the idea of God, and why should I? I know that your answers will include "there's no evidence" and all that, but please try to explain.

Atheist isn't something you become just because you should or because it's modern to be an atheist. You either don't believe the religious bullshit or you do. There's no middle point. Everything else between "I'm an atheist" and "I'm a believer" is just a posture. It's pretty much the same as the immature teens in my country who blare forth "I'm gay" but when the cock comes to the ass, they suddenly become straight and run away. But they blare forth they're gay because for some reason it has become a fashing among the immature teens in my country and they think they're "cool" for saying that. Following that analogy, saying you're an atheist without actually being one won't make you cool.