atheism and children

[Javaman]

My wife and I have two boys (5* and 7) and all the standard cliches about how kids are equally wonderful and exasperating apply.

Your comment about atheists being "anti-kids" is the sort of comment that cements my opinion that anecdotal evidence is not very useful most of the time.

On a side note, my wife and I are an infertile couple (well actually it's just me) and both of our children were conceived through IVF.

The teachings with regards to IVF of your beloved Church piss me off. If a Catholic ever suggests to me that my beautiful, amazing boys are the sinful byproduct of immoral and illicit acts, or that we are somehow a lesser family, I will punch them square in the nose.

This is just one of the many things about the Catholic Church that make me greatly appreciate Minimalist's sig.

*technically 4.92 yrs old, but we're already planning the birthday part, so I'm calling him 5.

See, and that's the strange part to me. You get angry at people who think IVF is not moral, but Pyrrho (and others here) just straight up said they think having kids is immoral and that they look down on people who have kids. No outrage there?

First off, I haven't actually read through the other thread where Pyrrho and others allegedly made those comments. As a general rule, I only respond to comments I've actually read or heard others make. Argument by hearsay is just not my style.

And no, I don't get automatically outraged when other people have a different opinion about an issue that matters to me. But you seem to be conflating two separate issues. Based on what you've said, Pyrrho isn't interested in the precise method of reproduction (good old fashioned fucking vs. IVF), he has an issue with reproduction itself. Totally different discussion.

For what it's worth, I think it's rather disingenuous of you to try manipulate my comments into a discussion about what some unrelated poster said.

Plus, as far as I know, Pyrrho hasn't actively tried to stop couples from reproducing using non-fucking methods, like IVF. The Catholic Church has tried to use it's influence to prohibit reproduction by IVF. It's one thing to hold an opinion on an issue: it's quite another to try and make it public policy.

So, CL, you agree with your church that masturbation and IVF are immoral? Don't deflect to Pyrrho (an others here), just answer the question.

Pyrrho, I'm not going after you here at all. Frankly, I find it a bit annoying that Catholic_Lady has evaded my main complaint about the Catholic Church's doctrine on IVF by trying to focus the attention on your opinion of reproduction.