atheism and children

[Alex K]

As someone who spawned recently, I do tentatively agree with some of your points. I think that at the end of the day, having kids is a somewhat selfish act because it serves some emotional (and sometimes even economical) need of the parents. However, I don't really think, at the risk of sounding like an imperialist pig, that the solution to global overpopulation is stopping to procreate in northern europe, it really isn't. I'm not saying that anyone should stop procreating, it just needs to reach sustainable levels everywhere.

Where we differ much, though we have a lot in common, is our outlook on life and the conclusions we draw from it. I also think the world sucks in large parts, but it is also endlessly exciting and interesting, and beautiful in places, and I can't wait showing that to the wee ones and seeing the world in a fresh light through their eyes. When I look at my baby daughter, sometimes I contemplate that life will be miserable for her too at times, there will be loss, or sickness. But then, you have to try and hope. If you decide against creating new life, you are also making a decision for your potential spawn without asking. Now, I admit this argument is relatively weak since it is so random who actually gets made in a conception, and which foetuses get aborted by God (incredibly many) and which don't. I do not think therefore that anyone who decides against kids should feel any need to justify this decision.

It's been a very interesting discussion!

I'd like to clear up my views on things. I think having children is morally questionable, that's probably the best way to put it. There are a lot of issues involved which are not cut and dry. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's totally wrong/immoral. And of course, I'd never ever try and stop anyone doing it. The points that I think are questionable are:

1) Forcing a life into existence when there was no requirement to do so, gambling on its standard of life without its consent.

2) The new life cannot easily "opt out" once here. Suicide is an option, but it's far from simple, and once here the person has their own moral decisions to consider.

3) The planet is hugely overpopulated already, and way more kids than are necessary for "survival" of the species are being produced.

4) There are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of children desperate for a home already.

5) Even the "happiest" of lives is pretty much guaranteed a fair dose of suffering at some point. I'm not comfortable with judging on behalf of this potential new life that "on balance it is good enough".

6) This world is a horrific place and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. (Of course this is just my own opinion.)

I don't look down on people for having children or think less of them. I would have preferred they not do it, or adopt instead, but I can't expect people to do what I would do. They live their own lives and make their own decisions. There's no point me holding a grudge against them after having kids. At that point, what is important is being a good parent. From what I read on here, I sense many very good parents I'm happy for people that they are happy and that (hopefully) their children are happy.

I'd prefer I had never been born, but I don't hold a grudge against my parents. Not on that account, anyway.

It's nice to be able to discuss it without people getting angry, I know it's a touchy issue. I don't expect people to simply agree with me, I'm just putting forward my point of view and supporting it with arguments. My goal, as ever, is to promote free thought and discussion.

Thank you to those of you who have shown you understand my position, even if you don't agree with it! It's one of many topics I wouldn't even bother talking about with most people because of the defensive aggression and attempts to shut down the conversation that I normally get.