atheism and children

[Javaman]

You said that IVF was an immoral and illicit act, and compared it to a criminal activity. So yeah, you did say the IVF babies are the product of immoral and illicit activities. You're the only one offering up straw here.

You have likened me to a criminal, CL, because I wanted a family and used science to make it happen.

And you want me to be cool with your belief in the superstitious mumbo jumbo that supposedly justifies your bigoted attitudes?

I don't think so.

And, again, will a rapist receive a worse punishment than me in the afterlife? You seem pretty clear about the Church's teachings on IVF.... why can't you figure out the answer to my question?

I said all children are sacred and precious. And they should not be seen as a "product of an immoral act" anymore than rape children should be seen as a "product of an immoral act." The means by which a child was conceived bears absolutely nothing on the child herself.

The analogy I used in regards to attaining $10 through stealing or working was not to compare the 2 acts (otherwise you'd also be saying that I'm comparing a child to $10), it was to explain how I believe there can be a right and a wrong way to go about obtaining the same end results. I used "stealing" because I know that stealing is something that y'all would consider an immoral act and so I thought it would help better explain where I am coming from. Nothing more, nothing less.

I actually don't care if you're cool with it or not. I do find it very interesting that you are so deeply offended by my personal belief that IVF is not moral, yet are totally ok with someone saying "I think having kids is immoral and I look down on people who have them." At least I don't look down on people who do IVF.

But, I digress.

If you define IVF as an immoral and illicit act, then IVF babies are, by your definition, the product of an immoral and illicit act. Whether or not you think the actual product is sacred and precious is irrelevant. Now I'm annoyed that your willful obtuseness has forced me to describe children as "products" so that you can understand my point.

Do you genuinely not get that? Or is your obtuseness part of some sort of long-range rhetorical ploy?

And your analogy about attaining $10 explicitly compares IVF to a criminal act. You did compare a child to $10, elsewise your analogy makes even less sense than it already does. WTF? IVF produces a child. Robbing someone produces $10 just like shoveling snow produces $10.

Do you even read what you write before you post it?

I never said I was "totally Ok" with someone saying having kids is immoral.

And you were complaining about me throwing some fucking straw into the conversation.