(August 13, 2015 at 9:27 am)Randy Carson Wrote:(August 13, 2015 at 9:20 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: It's impossible to 'rise' from the dead until it's proven beyond doubt that it's not. Until then, it's all nonsense.
The end.
What is your explanation for the five minimal facts (accepted by atheist and theist scholars alike) which we examined here?
Even if they were established as fact:
1. Jesus died by crucifixion
2. Jesus' disciples believed that He rose and appeared to them
3. Saul, the persecutor of the Church, was suddenly changed
4. James, the skeptical brother of Jesus, was suddenly changed
5. Jesus' tomb was found to be empty
These five statements need no explanation. People, like the disciples and Paul believe a whole number of wacky things: alien abductions, UFO conspiracies, The Book of Mormon, you name it. And those wacky beliefs can change lives. But they don't prove anything. Empty tombs even if he were buried in a tomb (doubtful) are most likely the result of someone moving the body.
Just to anticipate: this is where you invariably bring in exact details about the above five contentions. Let's be clear, the "facts" don't include details. There are no details. The scholars do not agree about the details. You can't use them while claiming a minimal fact approach.
The disciples are not people we know much of anything about, not their number, not their names. Those contentions don't say which disciples, believed when or why, or when, why, or how they told anyone. "Changed" is a rather amorphous concept meaning approximately nothing. When and where and which tomb by whom, are not part of your "facts."
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
