(August 14, 2015 at 7:00 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:(August 14, 2015 at 2:14 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Wait, wait, wait, wait... people won't die for a lie or delusion? Care to explain Jihad, then?
Kevin-
You're either not paying attention or not thinking or both.
It has been said by me and others MANY times that people die for their belief all the time.
What is not common is for people to lay down their lives for what they know to be a lie.
If the apostles made up the story of Jesus' resurrection, then they KNEW is was a lie. No one dies for what they know are lies.
Except that the apostles' deaths are mostly shrouded in mystery, AFAIK. Judas hung himself/committed suicide due to his betrayal. Beyond that, it is believed that Peter, Paul, and James were martyred (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle_(C...e_Apostles). And there's nothing about the others.
Indeed, your favorite quote mined source, Ehrman, talks about this on his blog (behind a pay wall: http://ehrmanblog.org/were-the-disciples...urrection/), dismissing your line of reasoning as a standard, and flawed, line of apologist reasoning. "They wouldn't die for a lie" assumes that they were captured, tortured, and then put to death, or faced that as a punishment. Yet, there's no evidence that the bulk of apostles died like that.
And, indeed, people do risk themselves for a lie if it's a way to maintain/increase power. Never forget that religion and politics were the same thing back then.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"