RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 19, 2015 at 2:27 am
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2015 at 2:46 am by robvalue.)
Well, we came about by natural processes. We evolved. I know Kingpin doesn't believe that, but that's scientific fact. There is no need for an assumption of intelligence behind our "design". (Our design is terrible, by the way. I want a fucking refund.)
(As usual, I don't talk about absolute certainty. I'm talking about things that are true beyond reasonable doubt. To doubt absolutely everything is to fail to have a discussion at all. I'm as hard solipsist-vulnerable as they come. I get it!)
So even though we, intelligence, built computers, we're really nothing more than mobile complex organic computers, and no intelligence designed us. So ultimately, computers came about by natural processes. We are nature. If intelligence was involved in our universe, it was at its inception, and not since.
Complexity is not evidence of design; simplicity is. We're really complicated and contrived. That does not point to a creator, even within the arguments which consider such a thing. It points to natural processes.
I understand it's natural to want to expect intelligence being behind everything. But the argument fails immediately. If intelligence must be behind everything, then intelligence must be behind "God" which raises way more questions than he answers. And an intelligence must be behind that intelligence, and so on.
Just giving God super intelligence-created-immune powers isn't reasonable, it's an admission that your own premise is flawed and the explanation doesn't actually work. Making god so ethereal that he doesn't actually "exist" either shows that he doesn't exist, or that again the argument is flawed. You're just making him out of paradox playdough. You're saying, "Everything needs a designer. That raises an impossible infinite regression paradox. But there can't be this paradox, and so something must fix the paradox. I call this thing God." You're literally saying God does the impossible, it fixes a paradox. But there is no paradox in the first place.
Maybe there is intelligence behind our reality somehow, maybe not. If there is, maybe there is intelligence behind that intelligence, maybe not. But at some point, the "maybe not" has to come true. Insisting that the answer is yes and then no is arbitrary. We simply have no clue at all. The parent reality, if there is one, could well be the ultimate one, but there's no reason it has to simply contain some weird supreme being and not much else.
What the fuck am I talking about? Get me my meds. Nurse, I think I'm lost, take me to my room...
(As usual, I don't talk about absolute certainty. I'm talking about things that are true beyond reasonable doubt. To doubt absolutely everything is to fail to have a discussion at all. I'm as hard solipsist-vulnerable as they come. I get it!)
So even though we, intelligence, built computers, we're really nothing more than mobile complex organic computers, and no intelligence designed us. So ultimately, computers came about by natural processes. We are nature. If intelligence was involved in our universe, it was at its inception, and not since.
Complexity is not evidence of design; simplicity is. We're really complicated and contrived. That does not point to a creator, even within the arguments which consider such a thing. It points to natural processes.
I understand it's natural to want to expect intelligence being behind everything. But the argument fails immediately. If intelligence must be behind everything, then intelligence must be behind "God" which raises way more questions than he answers. And an intelligence must be behind that intelligence, and so on.
Just giving God super intelligence-created-immune powers isn't reasonable, it's an admission that your own premise is flawed and the explanation doesn't actually work. Making god so ethereal that he doesn't actually "exist" either shows that he doesn't exist, or that again the argument is flawed. You're just making him out of paradox playdough. You're saying, "Everything needs a designer. That raises an impossible infinite regression paradox. But there can't be this paradox, and so something must fix the paradox. I call this thing God." You're literally saying God does the impossible, it fixes a paradox. But there is no paradox in the first place.
Maybe there is intelligence behind our reality somehow, maybe not. If there is, maybe there is intelligence behind that intelligence, maybe not. But at some point, the "maybe not" has to come true. Insisting that the answer is yes and then no is arbitrary. We simply have no clue at all. The parent reality, if there is one, could well be the ultimate one, but there's no reason it has to simply contain some weird supreme being and not much else.
What the fuck am I talking about? Get me my meds. Nurse, I think I'm lost, take me to my room...
Feel free to send me a private message.
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Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum