(August 31, 2015 at 1:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No one is saying that it's easy, or that God does not have mercy on those who fall short. It is a very tall order. Yes, ideally, we believe they should try to live a chaste life style. But we should not judge those who don't, because like you said, it is a very difficult thing to do. I don't think it's "bigoted" to have the belief that sex outside husband and wife is immoral. People can still do what they want in their sex life, and we should respect all people. But it doesn't mean we have to think it's moral. That's not bigoted.
The part that is bigoted- or just plain bad, since I saw you had a disagreement over the definition of bigotry earlier- is that you have a morally acceptable avenue for people to have a sex life for straight people, but that your religion works to prevent gay people from having access to that same avenue, instead offering them a simplistic "just don't do it," path for them to abstain from sinning. That uneven dynamic is bad enough, without having to add in the obvious additional problems that denying gays the right to marriage brings.
To be clear, my point is that the way you phrase your actions is less important than the actions themselves, and in this case the current church position on homosexuality is largely identical to the bigoted version of old; they still can't be allowed to marry, their sexuality is still immoral, etc etc. The actions have remained the same, the church is just attempting to PR it up so that they don't face any disapproval for what is, essentially, a refusal to change stance at all.
Quote:On a semi unrelated note, do you think that it's wrong in general to believe someone should deny a huge part of themselves? Or only in certain cases?
Because there are other cases where all of us, as a society, believe a person should deny huge parts of themselves.
In certain cases, specifically where there is an actual, demonstrable negative consequence to allowing people to fully acknowledge that part of themselves. I have no problem requiring that, say, pederasts deny their urges because of the demonstrable negative impact they would have on children. In the case of gay people I can find no reason to deny them at all, and all those in favor of forcing them into chastity can bring to the table are claims of immorality according to the will of a god they're unable to demonstrate.
It's not denial that I take issue with, it's pointless denial that only causes suffering among those being commanded to deny; there are young men and women committing suicide because their church explicitly tells them that a fundamental part of their nature is immoral when acted upon, and honestly, there's no reason at all to go there as emphatically as religions tend to do if Jesus forgives all sins.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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