(November 8, 2010 at 5:51 pm)coffeeveritas Wrote: OK, in the last thread I started I saw that the atheists here cite "burden of proof" as to why they do not believe in God. The atheist is not making any claims about the supernatural and therefore those that do make claims about the supernatural have the burden of proof. I also saw a lot of references to a belief in scientific thinking, and one person stated that their belief in science superseded belief in God. It was a surprisingly unanimous opinion and I found it to be fascinating, especially in how exactly it lined up with Modern thinking. I was hoping you could help understand a few more things.I'm going to explain this simply and quickly at first and I'll explain it further if you wish me to, but my atheism is based entirely on the empirical evidence presented to me.
First of all, I would like to hear what idea, concept, proof, or experience brought each of you personally to be Atheist. I know that you all profess that the burden of proof is on the person making the claims, you explained that to me quite well, but the "burden of proof" viewpoint is an assumption that Atheists make, so it would most likely be something you arrived at after deciding there is no God. I think most of you agreed with me that no one could argue a Christian out of faith, and that everyone will tend to believe what they believe until they are given sufficient reasons to change. So what I'm asking is what is it that made you decide to that you were firmly atheist? Or if you were raised in an Atheist home, what is it that made you decide that you personally were going to continue in your parent's (or parents') tradition?
Science has all of it and religion has none of it - but it doesn't end there because the evidence science has actively contradicts many of the claims that religion makes.
The genesis myth, for example, is contradicted by numerous sciences that date back centuries - from all of biology, astronomy, physics, chemistry, and numerous things I'm otherwise forgetting.
All of this is also to say that I don't simply "believe" science. I do not have faith in science so much as science as proven itself beyond a reasonable doubt that it works and that it can solve problems and answer questions.
Religion does all of this by making up the answers and presenting them as informed.
(November 8, 2010 at 5:51 pm)coffeeveritas Wrote: Bonus question: What do you think of the work of Post-Modern philosophers in relation to your Modernist stance? To be sure Post-modernists were no fans of Christianity either, but they seriously challenge much of Modern thought. In specific I would cite Derrida's claim that everything is an interpretation, and Lyotard's assertion that meta-narratives are unreliable. For example, the Modernist meta-narrative of the single, objective, scientific truth that would solve all the world's problems, and it's corollary, the privileged status of science.I don't care much for philosophy so there really isn't a whole lot I can say on the topic.
I really feel like the last thread gave me a good idea of the basic stance of Atheism, but there is so much more to understand. As with the last thread I'm more interested in seeing what you have to say, but if your reason for becoming an Atheist was a certain proof and you'd like me to take a crack at it, just make a note of it and I'll respond. Otherwise, I'll just be listening. I can't wait to hear from you and thank you for your input.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan