RE: Converting Atheists with Guilt
September 10, 2015 at 7:14 pm
(This post was last modified: September 10, 2015 at 7:23 pm by Knight000.)
(September 10, 2015 at 8:14 am)Napoléon Wrote:(September 9, 2015 at 10:02 pm)Jenny A Wrote: It's more that some people get guilt tripped into continuing to go through the motions of religion. I don't think you can convert anyone by guilt, or make them believe by guilt either.
I disagree, I think a lot of 'born again' christians are a fine example of guilt tripped people, who suddenly feel like they have a lease to start over.
I view those people as "abuse victims" if they were abused as a child/used, so unless someone in jail didn't have one of those things happen to him, I can agree with this.
(September 10, 2015 at 8:44 am)Chuck Wrote: I disagree that no one has ever been guilt tripped into a real, or as real as to make no difference, conversion.
We tend to suppose people have clear internal definitions of what fact or truth is, and would evaluate how closely a proposition meet the definition of fact or truth by assessing objective, external, evidence for or against it. So we suppose if religion didn't match a person's internal definition for factual, than that person could not be guilt tripped into any conversion that would result the religion being assessed as factual anyway.
I think that supposition is not really true with many people. Many people have no clear internal definition of what is true and what is factual. Therefore they do not have any repeatable or consistent way to measure what is true and what is factual. Instead they let a complex smog of feelings and emotions dictate to them what they would accept as being true and factual. Such people certainly can be guilt tripped into a real conversion.
Fair.
(September 9, 2015 at 11:54 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:(September 9, 2015 at 10:50 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Guilt is associated strongly with Christianity.
"You've displeased god. You must repent, and follow our rules if you want to get into heaven. You want to go to heaven, don't you?"
They are told he is all loving and merciful, and they are shown how cruel and horrible he can be. But they fail to see the contradiction.
They think god is above humanity, and thus his cruelty is just. As if Cruelty can ever be just. They think they deserve it, and that might just be the saddest thing of all.
I wholeheartedly agree:
![[Image: God-as-abusive-relationship.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=dangerousintersection.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2FGod-as-abusive-relationship.jpg)
I grew up in an atheist family, so I can't accurately emulate that feeling of guilt. But if I were to be able to feel it, coming from a loved one, I would think they were stupid.
(September 10, 2015 at 8:21 am)abaris Wrote:(September 9, 2015 at 9:17 pm)Knight000 Wrote: Does anyone know of a person or even a story of a person who has been "guilt tripped" into any religion by a follower, and them sticking to that religion
I guess it rather happens to make people stay. When I was a child, being brought up as a Catholic, the priests guilt tripped us on any given occasion. If you do this or that, you're going to hell. The most revolting instance I remember, was one of these guys telling us kids, god would take what's most dear to us, if we sin. So, kind of like a Mafia boss threatening the family, if you don't show proper respect.
I can't imagine an atheist being guilt tripped into religion. If you don't believe in possible consequences, you won't feel guilt.
In that situation, I like to step back and see how the person reacts to religious backtalk.
Do they get red in the face and shout? Then they most likely use their religion as moral justification for whatever their opinion is.
Do they stay calm and collected? Then they genuinely believe that God will provide and have no trouble, that there is no place god has receded, and that all sinners and nonbeleivers truly are just lost souls and if god deems it so they will join faith.
Both are completely illogical and a waste of air.
