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Reason for converting Good Christians
#1
Reason for converting Good Christians
I have seen posts, like advertising on buses or visiting a church etc.

But are there good reasons for converting good Christians to Atheism?

I am not talking about the christians in certain areas(Like the mormons I have read here but I do not know what a momon is) Or theists in those fundamentalist countries which has tendency to sprout terrorists.

I am talking about the Good churches in most of our areas.

Why not let them believe in what they want. They chose it and mostly are happy with it.

Also, as was already mentioned, it may keep out some otherwise bad people from crime.

In fact ,there are many Crimminals who have abstained from crime since becoming Christians.

They may waste a bit of their time believing, but ven then in attending Church, they are happy and get to fufil some of their social needs.

I will actually prefer if the whole world turns to proper Christians. Will it not make the world a better place?

Some bad hats may then use Christianity for their misdeeds by misleading them, but they are the very ones who may not be a total Christian
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#2
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
I don't see why any of this cannot be achieved through secular means.
If people wish for moral guidance, give them moral guidance. This doesn't require threats, miracles or magic.
If people wish for a social event, give them a social event. This doesn't require rituals or singing to imaginary friends.
I don't think that there's anything particularly terrible about "good christians", besides the intense cherry-picking extravaganza. A "good christian" seems to be those who believe in God, haven't read much of or ignore the bulk of the bible, and live their lives under the assumption that they'll go to heaven. So long as this doesn't affect their stances on abortion, stem cell research, homosexuality, slaves, euthanasia, foreign policy or science curriculum they're fine. But to be a christian and hold these views is to ignore most of what the bible teaches/implies/orders/suggests. Cut out the middle-man I say. Head straight to the morals and the partnership if that's what they really want, because they ignore most of their religioin's teachings anyway.
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#3
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
"I don't see why any of this cannot be achieved through secular means."

You have but to admit it is more difficult without the threat of God Punishing you even if no one is watching.

"abortion, stem cell research, homosexuality, slaves, euthanasia, foreign policy or science curriculum "

Of all these, only the Science cirriculum and homosexuality are applicable since euthanasia, Abortion, stem cell research and foreign policy are areas even atheists are divided on.


And what is it about slaves??

Regarding homosexuality, you know many atheists attack them too? go to http://www.sherdog.com . Being Gay is considered derogratory (sp) there and many other forums and places.

As for Science cirriculum, back to the topic of this thread. If my aim is to make more Christians, which it is, I wont mind them not knowing much about evolution. Knowing much about it wont bring much benefits nor happiness anyways, unless you are a scientist, which you will get to know about it in this day and age anyways.
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#4
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
First, no one is forcing anyone to convert. The slogans are there to espouse an opinion, to make people think. If a mere poster converts someone, well, they weren't that religious in the first place ^_^

Second, atheists don't stand outside "good churches" with placards quoting Dawkins, Darwin, and Einstein.

Third, it is the theist who is more likely to commit a crime than the atheist: there is a disproportionaly high number of Christians, Muslims, and other religious people in the Western prisons than there are in the general population (for example, though atheists make up ~15% of the general US population, they only make up 0.21% (!!!) of the US prison population).
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right." - Stargate: SG1

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone. - Charles Darwin
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#5
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
Because in this day in age, beleif no reason other than you were told to beleive so is absurd. And unfortunately, most of them do so. Religion slows scientific progress, delays human rights and seeks to actively opress people they deem unworthy or sinners.

I don't think I'll ever quite see how anyone would ever want to be a part of that, if they really knew what was happening, god or no god. If they know and still cling to worship their god (real or not, hes still an ass) then I don't think they fall into the catagory of 'good christians' that we are speaking of.
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#6
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
(January 17, 2009 at 12:36 pm)Ephrium Wrote: You have but to admit it is more difficult without the threat of God Punishing you even if no one is watching.

Yes, those weak minded proles need us to govern their lives with threats. Without threats, their tiny little brains wouldn't be able to cope. [/sarcasm]
I think it's unfair to say this kind of threat is necessary. You assume that the masses need to be treated like children in order to lead good lives.

Quote:Of all these, only the Science cirriculum and homosexuality are applicable since euthanasia, Abortion, stem cell research and foreign policy are areas even atheists are divided on.

Atheists don't have a book telling them that homosexuals should be stoned, all human "life" has a soul (abortion, stem cell and euthanasia), or that all our science is wrong. Who is more likely to appose gay rights? The person whose book orders such, or the person who is free to make a decision? And I'm sure most atheists are quite undivided on this topic.

Quote:And what is it about slaves??
The bible is okay with it.

Quote:Regarding homosexuality, you know many atheists attack them too? go to http://www.sherdog.com . Being Gay is considered derogratory (sp) there and many other forums and places.

You linked me to a martial arts website? Thinking

Quote:As for Science cirriculum, back to the topic of this thread. If my aim is to make more Christians, which it is, I wont mind them not knowing much about evolution. Knowing much about it wont bring much benefits nor happiness anyways, unless you are a scientist, which you will get to know about it in this day and age anyways.

Undecided So when people begin to wonder about their origins, what do you tell them? Evolution or creation? These "scientists" to whom it matters would never become scientists without the correct information being distributed in the classroom. And as for whether or not it bring "much benifits" or "happiness", you'd be wrogn to assert that it doesn't. The story of the real universe and our real origins is a magnificant one. By all means, be a christian, but don't deny your minions the right to learn this stuff.
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#7
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
"First, no one is forcing anyone to convert. The slogans are there to espouse an opinion, to make people think. If a mere poster converts someone, well, they weren't that religious in the first place ^_^

Second, atheists don't stand outside "good churches" with placards quoting Dawkins, Darwin, and Einstein.
"

This does not answer this thread, which is WHY do we want them to convert.

"
Third, it is the theist who is more likely to commit a crime than the atheist: there is a disproportionaly high number of Christians, Muslims, and other religious people in the Western prisons than there are in the general population (for example, though atheists make up ~15% of the general US population, they only make up 0.21% (!!!) of the US prison population"

I do not believe this. Even if it is true it may be that the convicts claim they tare Christians to hopefully get a lighter sentence. Quote source.

"Religion slows scientific progress"

Only in certain areas, like stem cells which I have mentioned which Atheists are divided on too.

What other areas of Science is hampered? List?

"delays human rights"

Whether they delay human rights is debatable too. To me they seem to fight for human rights.

"seeks to actively opress people they deem unworthy or sinners."

Like who? Most of them they most actively attack or oppress are, logically, the crime committing gropu, which are who we atheists should oppress too.





"Because in this day in age, beleif no reason other than you were told to beleive so is absurd"

Yes, agreed, but this thread is more about benefits to society and you and me.
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#8
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: What other areas of Science is hampered? List?

Cosmology (age of the universe, stars and galaxies created for our amusement, light was given a "head start" to reach us, all sorts of crazy ideas to keep the creation dream alive)
Physiology (virgin birth, reincarnation)
Evolutionary biology (we must reject macroevolution)
Quantam Mechanics (things don't come from nothing, therefore our understanding of the quantum world is wrong)
Geology/Paleantology (our dating methods are all innacurate, apparently there was a global flood too)

Science wouldn't exist alongside the bible teachings if people were to accept them.

Quote:Whether they delay human rights is debatable too. To me they seem to fight for human rights.
Gay rights. A woman's right to choose. A terminally ill patient's right to die.


Quote:Like who? Most of them they most actively attack or oppress are, logically, the crime committing gropu, which are who we atheists should oppress too.
See above.

Quote:Yes, agreed, but this thread is more about benefits to society and you and me.

How about constructing a list of pros and cons?
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#9
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
(January 17, 2009 at 1:32 pm)LukeMC Wrote: 1)
Yes, those weak minded proles need us to govern their lives with threats. Without threats, their tiny little brains wouldn't be able to cope. [/sarcasm]
I think it's unfair to say this kind of threat is necessary. You assume that the masses need to be treated like children in order to lead good lives.

2)
Atheists don't have a book telling them that homosexuals should be stoned, all human "life" has a soul (abortion, stem cell and euthanasia), or that all our science is wrong. Who is more likely to appose gay rights? The person whose book orders such, or the person who is free to make a decision? And I'm sure most atheists are quite undivided on this topic.

3)
The bible is okay with it.
4)You linked me to a martial arts website? Thinking
5)
Undecided So when people begin to wonder about their origins, what do you tell them? Evolution or creation? These "scientists" to whom it matters would never become scientists without the correct information being distributed in the classroom. And as for whether or not it bring "much benifits" or "happiness", you'd be wrogn to assert that it doesn't. The story of the real universe and our real origins is a magnificant one. By all means, be a christian, but don't deny your minions the right to learn this stuff.

1) Put it this way. And I am not talking about terrorists. There are many many people who have lead and are leading crime free, drug free lives BECAUSE they converted into Christianity from Atheism. Are there ANY drug dealers or criminals who have lead righteouss lives BECAUSE they converted from Chrstianity to Atheism?

2)Christians do not tell us all or even Most of our science is wrong.

Christians are more likely to oppose Gay rights, but Atheists very often place gays as disgusting and not of equal stature too.

If you want to specifically address gay rights, putting effort directly to it rather than through converting Christians may produce better results

3)AFAIK(I am not from the US), the people who liberated the blacks are Christians.

4)I just linked to a random forum,one I frequently visit. You need not look into any forum actually to know that the label 'gay' is frequently regarded as degratory

5)It does not matter. Have them stay Christian.

When they become Scientists, then and only then let them know evolution.

Of course this last part is a mere wish given the world as it is now.
Given that I do not see much free time nor benefit to me to continue this now, I just answer this last part:

(January 17, 2009 at 1:52 pm)LukeMC Wrote: How about constructing a list of pros and cons?


To me, this is the biggest one:"1) Put it this way. And I am not talking about terrorists. There are many many people who have lead and are leading crime free, drug free lives BECAUSE they converted into Christianity from Atheism. Are there ANY drug dealers or criminals who have lead righteouss lives BECAUSE they converted from Chrstianity to Atheism?"
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#10
RE: Reason for converting Good Christians
(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: "First, no one is forcing anyone to convert. The slogans are there to espouse an opinion, to make people think. If a mere poster converts someone, well, they weren't that religious in the first place ^_^

Second, atheists don't stand outside "good churches" with placards quoting Dawkins, Darwin, and Einstein.
"

This does not answer this thread, which is WHY do we want them to convert.
Actually, it does: I explicitly stated that atheists don't want to convert people. They simply point out the facts: there probably isn't a God.

(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: "
Third, it is the theist who is more likely to commit a crime than the atheist: there is a disproportionaly high number of Christians, Muslims, and other religious people in the Western prisons than there are in the general population (for example, though atheists make up ~15% of the general US population, they only make up 0.21% (!!!) of the US prison population"

I do not believe this. Even if it is true it may be that the convicts claim they tare Christians to hopefully get a lighter sentence.
That is only the case in the US (as far as I am aware). Not ever nation is as daft as to be lenient on its theists. All are equal in the eyes of the law, regardless of theological stance.

(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: Quote source.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r188.pdf

(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: "Religion slows scientific progress"

Only in certain areas, like stem cells which I have mentioned which Atheists are divided on too.
It's not a question of opinion.

(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: What other areas of Science is hampered? List?
The science education of children springs to mind.

(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: "delays human rights"

Whether they delay human rights is debatable too. To me they seem to fight for human rights.
Yes, because the Religious Right are well-known for championing women's rights, ethnic rights, gay rights, handicapped rights, etc.

(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: "seeks to actively opress people they deem unworthy or sinners."

Like who? Most of them they most actively attack or oppress are, logically, the crime committing gropu, which are who we atheists should oppress too.
The point is that their condemnations are against as arbitrary as their beliefs. Why, for instance, do they insist on dictating who can be married to whom?

(January 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm)Ephrium Wrote: "Because in this day in age, beleif no reason other than you were told to beleive so is absurd"

Yes, agreed, but this thread is more about benefits to society and you and me.
And what benefits does religion bring?
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right." - Stargate: SG1

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone. - Charles Darwin
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