Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist

[robvalue]

Objects in a dream can affect my wellbeing within the dream. And if we're assuming that whatever perceived reality this is will be the subject of discussion, it may only be a dream world.

Also, what happens in the dream can affect the physical body of the person having the dream as well.

We need to figure out whose dream this is and wake them up!

whether you call it a dream world or not is semantics. the point is since hypothetically all the senses give us the same sensations in an idealistic world as in a material world, both worlds can be described as a 'real world' (still speaking hypothetically). both worlds have the same material consequences, the only difference is the prospect of afterlife in an idealist world and absolute death of self in a materialist world.

Yes, the information we get is the same. A dream world cannot be differentiated from a "real" world, which raises the question of what "real" means at all. We don't know if anyone has ever had any contact with anything "real" or if the people doing the experiencing are "real". Maybe the mind is not real either, and nothing exists. When you say "matter doesn't exist" I'm not sure what you mean by matter. If there is an external objective reality which we are experiencing, then that is made out of matter; hopefully you'd agree with that. So for there to be no matter, you are saying there is no external objective reality. But since experiencing an external reality is exactly the same as experiencing a dream or an illusion, how can you possibly tell the difference? You appear to be arguing for solipsism, that nothing we "experience" is real, exactly like a dream world all in someone's mind. Who that person is, I don't know. God? How on Earth that fits in with Christianity I have no idea. God is having a dream?

But as I said, "real" appears meaningless. Things are as real as they seem, as far as the observer is concerned. So you could say that they are made of "mind matter"; they exist to that person, the mind is producing them. Considering we literally can't experience matter anyway even if it exists, the distinction seems impossible to reconcile. All we have is our brain's interpretation of whatever is going on. That, fundamentally, is why we can't ever know what is really going on.

We deduce things "exist" and are "real" by consulting other independent observers. But once you enter the realm of solipsism, there are no other independent observers. You have to assume solipsism to be false before you can consider anyone else distinct from your own delusion. This includes the existence of ourselves; and the nature of it, if we do exist. But this is somewhat circular; if solipsism is true, then "exist" has no practical meaning in this reality at least.

Congratulations! Robvalue just reached Philosophy level 2! You get the new title of bog-standard philosopher who is not quite a complete beginner. +1 Wisdom, +1 Physical Strength and +1 Beard and sandals. 8,325 xp points to the next level.