Evidence: The Gathering

[Randy Carson]

Randy: You have been throwing the word "fact" about quite a bit regarding things we can supposedly learn from the bible. Surely this means that such evidence would be acceptable to put you down for murder, if it is a fact?

"put you down for a murder" must be a British idiom...I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Does that mean "accuse me of murder"?

But let me begin by asking: What is a fact of ancient history, rob?

How can we know with certainty that something actually occurred before the invention of photography, audio recording and so forth? In fact, given the ease with which something can be photoshopped, edited or altered, how can we even be certain of ANY electronic evidence anymore?

Even for things you wouldn't say are facts, you're admitting us atheists have no reason to believe the supernatural stuff happened beyond reasonable doubt? And considering we're talking about supernatural stuff, what is reasonable doubt is much bigger in scope. At least it should be, for anyone interested in the truth.

There is a chain of evidence to consider, rob.

A is probably true. And if so, that points to the possibility that B is true. And if B is true, then C would have to be true, also.

It seems to me that atheists begin with the presupposition that GOD DOES NOT EXIST, and all the rest of their efforts are geared toward explaining away anything that suggests otherwise.

I agree, historical study often does not put things beyond reasonable doubt. But that's not the message I've been getting from you, and joining a religion seems to be putting a lot more than historical probability into action.

A jury in a courtroom examines the evidence presented and comes to a decision. If they believe beyond a reasonable doubt - not beyond ALL doubt (because some doubts may not be reasonable) - then they can vote to convict the defendant.

If a non-believer listens to the arguments and evidence for theism and Christianity, he or she evaluates whether it is convincing or not. If this is done objectively and with determination to follow the evidence wherever it might lead, then it is not all that unusual for the person to become a believer because the arguments in favor of Christianity are persuasive. They're just not coercive.

But this is just the beginning, rob.

God is real. God is alive. And God can and does make Himself known to those who seek him. This knowledge is not based on archaeological evidence or examination of ancient texts...it is based upon revelation and relationship.

Conversely, there are people to whom God reveals Himself first - in which case all the facts and figures and dates, etc. are merely interesting bits of information that confirms what they already know to be true: God is real.