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Current time: July 19, 2025, 5:33 pm

Poll: What is your stance?
This poll is closed.
I do not believe that god(s) exist.
64.15%
34 64.15%
I believe that god(s) do not exist.
24.53%
13 24.53%
I believe that god(s) exist.
11.32%
6 11.32%
Total 53 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Belief
#55
RE: Belief
(December 1, 2010 at 8:00 am)Strongbad Wrote: 1. Humans have developed a vivid imagination.
2. Many fictional characters have been created by human imagination, e.g. leprechauns, fairies, dragons, god(s), etc.
3. Therefore, no deity exists, except in the realm of human imagination.

An argument that assumes gods are products of human imagination in order to conclude that gods are products of human imagination is a viciously circular epic fail.




(December 4, 2010 at 5:50 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: My point is that so-called defeaters, such as the free-will defense, do not give a knockout blow to arguments for atheism such as evil and reasonable unbelief (divine hiddenness).

The only arguments for atheism such defeaters knockout are the logical forms thereof, which are intended to demonstrate a contradiction. If there is no logical contradiction, then such arguments are defeated (e.g., if God has a morally sufficient reason for X, then X no longer demonstrates a contradiction and the argument is dead). To maintain the argument, the atheist would have to show that God having a morally sufficient reason for X itself involves a contradiction. The logical Problem of Evil and other such arguments are exercises in futility that since the 70s and 80s (Smith, Mackie, etc.) few atheist philosophers waste time on.

Captain Scarlet Wrote:Let's stop talking for a second about the philosophical [concept of] god and talk about the Christian God, who clearly threatens people if they do not do as they are told.

First, the God of Christianity is the only one I contend for in my arguments anyway, regardless of whether others are using generic deity or not. Second, God does not threaten anybody, if 'threat' means an act of coercion (which you indicated as your meaning); it carries the implication of forcing someone against their will into this or that action, which is inapplicable here because God does not force anyone into anything. It is more akin to your cliff analogy, wherein God says, "You can do X, which results in P, or not, which results in Q." You can now make an informed choice, knowing what this or that choice results in. Taking umbrage to some consequence does not equate to the loss of free-will. Third, the very notion of God forcing someone against their will is utterly meaningless (it presupposes a will capable of resisting God, which is question-begging vis-à-vis omnipotence and omniscience).

Captain Scarlet Wrote:Worship is by definition an abandonment of your autonomy and ultimately free will.

The abandonment of your autonomy assumes you had it to begin with, which is question-begging vis-à-vis a God who is sovereign over his creation. You can assume what you like, of course, but belief P (God's sovereignty) is not refuted by the mere existence of ~P belief y (human autonomy).
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Belief - by Paul the Human - November 1, 2010 at 11:42 am
RE: Belief - by Shinylight - November 1, 2010 at 12:35 pm
RE: Belief - by Tiberius - November 1, 2010 at 1:38 pm
RE: Belief - by Violet - November 2, 2010 at 2:50 am
RE: Belief - by ib.me.ub - November 2, 2010 at 7:29 am
RE: Belief - by Justtristo - November 2, 2010 at 7:49 am
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 2, 2010 at 9:21 pm
RE: Belief - by orogenicman - November 3, 2010 at 7:17 am
RE: Belief - by Existentialist - November 3, 2010 at 3:49 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 3, 2010 at 5:02 pm
RE: Belief - by solja247 - November 3, 2010 at 6:59 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 4, 2010 at 2:12 am
RE: Belief - by Existentialist - November 4, 2010 at 3:57 am
RE: Belief - by tackattack - November 5, 2010 at 3:50 am
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 23, 2010 at 12:27 am
RE: Belief - by Lethe - November 23, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 23, 2010 at 4:17 pm
RE: Belief - by Lethe - November 23, 2010 at 5:57 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 23, 2010 at 6:20 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 24, 2010 at 4:06 am
RE: Belief - by Strongbad - December 1, 2010 at 8:00 am
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2010 at 1:52 am
RE: Belief - by downbeatplumb - November 23, 2010 at 2:30 pm
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 23, 2010 at 3:57 pm
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - November 23, 2010 at 6:28 pm
RE: Belief - by padraic - November 23, 2010 at 8:36 pm
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - November 23, 2010 at 9:56 pm
RE: Belief - by ib.me.ub - November 23, 2010 at 10:06 pm
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - November 23, 2010 at 10:47 pm
RE: Belief - by ib.me.ub - November 23, 2010 at 10:57 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 25, 2010 at 3:58 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 25, 2010 at 5:31 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 25, 2010 at 6:16 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 26, 2010 at 6:14 am
RE: Belief - by The Omnissiunt One - November 25, 2010 at 6:39 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 28, 2010 at 9:47 pm
RE: Belief - by downbeatplumb - November 29, 2010 at 1:52 pm
RE: Belief - by Lethe - November 29, 2010 at 9:17 am
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 29, 2010 at 10:47 am
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 29, 2010 at 11:43 am
RE: Belief - by Minimalist - November 29, 2010 at 11:59 am
RE: Belief - by LastPoet - November 29, 2010 at 3:21 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 29, 2010 at 8:47 pm
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - November 29, 2010 at 5:48 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 29, 2010 at 6:19 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 30, 2010 at 5:16 am
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - December 4, 2010 at 5:50 am
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 30, 2010 at 4:35 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 30, 2010 at 5:04 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 30, 2010 at 5:06 pm
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - November 30, 2010 at 5:14 pm
RE: Belief - by tackattack - December 4, 2010 at 2:58 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - December 5, 2010 at 1:24 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - December 5, 2010 at 10:30 am
RE: Belief - by Strongbad - December 5, 2010 at 4:25 pm
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - December 5, 2010 at 11:32 am
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - December 5, 2010 at 11:35 am
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - December 5, 2010 at 11:46 am
RE: Belief - by Lethe - December 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm
RE: Belief - by lilyannerose - December 5, 2010 at 1:19 pm
RE: Belief - by Lethe - December 5, 2010 at 4:33 pm
RE: Belief - by lilyannerose - December 5, 2010 at 5:26 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - December 5, 2010 at 10:23 pm

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