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Current time: July 19, 2025, 5:23 pm

Poll: What is your stance?
This poll is closed.
I do not believe that god(s) exist.
64.15%
34 64.15%
I believe that god(s) do not exist.
24.53%
13 24.53%
I believe that god(s) exist.
11.32%
6 11.32%
Total 53 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Belief
#61
RE: Belief
(December 4, 2010 at 2:58 pm)tackattack Wrote: Just because you feel duress at the information presented doens't mean it's any more of an act of bullying or coersion, then an informative lesson. Last I recall Arcanus and I are both Christians and I can't speak for him, but I believe that God's intent is not to interfere with free will, but to inform. You obviously have a differing opinion so please site refernece and a framework for your logic.
Saying that a being is worthy of worship, we would be recognizing it as having an unqualified claim on our obedience. Can there be such an unqualified claim and is that consistent with free will? There is a long tradition in moral philosophy, according to which such a recognition could never be made by a moral agent. According to this tradition, to be a moral agent is to be autonomous, or self-directed. Unlike law or social custom, moral precepts are imposed by the agent upon themself, the person who acts according to precepts that can, on reflection, conscientiously approve of their own actions.

On this view, to deliver oneself over to a moral authority for directions about what to do is simply incompatible with being a moral agent. To say "I will follow directions no matter what they are and no matter what my own conscience would otherwise direct me to do" is to opt out of moral thinking altogether. Furthermore to feel compelled to do it because of threats levelled agianst you is to limit your own ability to override these directions and thus exercise free will

The description of a being as all-powerful, all-wise, and so on would not settle the issue; for even if it could be demonstarted that the existence of such an awesome being was necessary, we might still question whether we should recognize him as having an unlimited claim on our obedience.

All this said it is purely academic. You ask for my logical framework for there being incompatibility between free will and a theistic god. But no theist has supplied any sound logical arguments nor evidence for such a being in the first place.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Belief - by Paul the Human - November 1, 2010 at 11:42 am
RE: Belief - by Shinylight - November 1, 2010 at 12:35 pm
RE: Belief - by Tiberius - November 1, 2010 at 1:38 pm
RE: Belief - by Violet - November 2, 2010 at 2:50 am
RE: Belief - by ib.me.ub - November 2, 2010 at 7:29 am
RE: Belief - by Justtristo - November 2, 2010 at 7:49 am
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 2, 2010 at 9:21 pm
RE: Belief - by orogenicman - November 3, 2010 at 7:17 am
RE: Belief - by Existentialist - November 3, 2010 at 3:49 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 3, 2010 at 5:02 pm
RE: Belief - by solja247 - November 3, 2010 at 6:59 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 4, 2010 at 2:12 am
RE: Belief - by Existentialist - November 4, 2010 at 3:57 am
RE: Belief - by tackattack - November 5, 2010 at 3:50 am
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 23, 2010 at 12:27 am
RE: Belief - by Lethe - November 23, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 23, 2010 at 4:17 pm
RE: Belief - by Lethe - November 23, 2010 at 5:57 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 23, 2010 at 6:20 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 24, 2010 at 4:06 am
RE: Belief - by Strongbad - December 1, 2010 at 8:00 am
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2010 at 1:52 am
RE: Belief - by downbeatplumb - November 23, 2010 at 2:30 pm
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 23, 2010 at 3:57 pm
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - November 23, 2010 at 6:28 pm
RE: Belief - by padraic - November 23, 2010 at 8:36 pm
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - November 23, 2010 at 9:56 pm
RE: Belief - by ib.me.ub - November 23, 2010 at 10:06 pm
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - November 23, 2010 at 10:47 pm
RE: Belief - by ib.me.ub - November 23, 2010 at 10:57 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 25, 2010 at 3:58 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 25, 2010 at 5:31 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 25, 2010 at 6:16 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 26, 2010 at 6:14 am
RE: Belief - by The Omnissiunt One - November 25, 2010 at 6:39 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 28, 2010 at 9:47 pm
RE: Belief - by downbeatplumb - November 29, 2010 at 1:52 pm
RE: Belief - by Lethe - November 29, 2010 at 9:17 am
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - November 29, 2010 at 10:47 am
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 29, 2010 at 11:43 am
RE: Belief - by Minimalist - November 29, 2010 at 11:59 am
RE: Belief - by LastPoet - November 29, 2010 at 3:21 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm
RE: Belief - by Anomalocaris - November 29, 2010 at 8:47 pm
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - November 29, 2010 at 5:48 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 29, 2010 at 6:19 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 30, 2010 at 5:16 am
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - December 4, 2010 at 5:50 am
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 30, 2010 at 4:35 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - November 30, 2010 at 5:04 pm
RE: Belief - by theVOID - November 30, 2010 at 5:06 pm
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - November 30, 2010 at 5:14 pm
RE: Belief - by tackattack - December 4, 2010 at 2:58 pm
RE: Belief - by Captain Scarlet - December 5, 2010 at 1:24 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - December 5, 2010 at 10:30 am
RE: Belief - by Strongbad - December 5, 2010 at 4:25 pm
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - December 5, 2010 at 11:32 am
RE: Belief - by Paul the Human - December 5, 2010 at 11:35 am
RE: Belief - by Welsh cake - December 5, 2010 at 11:46 am
RE: Belief - by Lethe - December 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm
RE: Belief - by lilyannerose - December 5, 2010 at 1:19 pm
RE: Belief - by Lethe - December 5, 2010 at 4:33 pm
RE: Belief - by lilyannerose - December 5, 2010 at 5:26 pm
RE: Belief - by Ryft - December 5, 2010 at 10:23 pm

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