RE: Meaningfulness v meaninglessness; theism vs atheism;
January 14, 2011 at 1:25 pm
(This post was last modified: January 14, 2011 at 1:29 pm by dqualk.)
Many of you are only making yourself look worse. You demonstrate that you do not post, at least not on this thread, to learn or to open dialouge, you post to insult and in general make a fool of yourself.
Ryft thank you for saying clearly, and without tangent, what I intended to say. Once again my only point in starting this thread was to demonstrate that atheist lack sujective value, and I believe that Theism is a well respected and intellectual position which gives subjective value, so why would one not choose a subjectively meaningful system.
The Catholic Church has consistently condemned Nazism to this day and will continue to in the future, including all the Popes since Hitler. Many many priests and Bishops lost their lives condemning nazism. The Pontiff did not condemn it in his day for fear that it would cause the destruction of the Vatican and the loss of even more Catholic lives around the world. Many people do not realize that what the Pope says can cost the lives of thousands, indeed millions.
It is meaningless to say Hitler was a Catholic. He clearly hated everything about the Catholic Church. Would I be an atheist if I consistently called myself an atheist but I sought to root out atheism in the world because I thought it was stupid? Hitler may not have been an atheist, but he certainly wasn't a Christian. I personally think he was an atheist because his motivations came from the idea that evolution was the key destiny of man, and that the chief job of "good" men was to further evolution by destroying the lesser races, and conditioning the greater race to evolve well. And he clearly had no fear of God whatsoever. If anything at all that is an atheistic motivation, in that you seek the meaing behind destiny and right and wrong from a natural source rather than a supernatural source. However, I suppose he could have been a deist or some other jacked up theist, I'm not saying deist are necessarily jacked up, but he would be one jacked up diest in this case.
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THE FOLLOWING IS QUOTE FROM EINSTEIN TO DEMONSTRATE MY POINT:
Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks….
.
Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.
.
- Albert Einstein, Time magazine, 23rd December, 1940 p. 38
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Another good bit of evidence is that the Chief Rabbi of Rome converted to Catholicism after WW II and took Pope Piux XII name as his baptismal name. Why? Becuase the Pope heroic effort to selflessly save every Jew he could and his constant commitment to ending the evil of Nazism.
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AND NOW QUOTES FROM HITLER TO DEMONSTRATE MY POINT
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
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A Hitler Youth marching song (Grunberger, A Social History) illustrates it:
We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel, Away with incense and Holy Water, The Church can go hang for all we care, The Swastika brings salvation on Earth.
Ubermensch its called propaganda. Here is a quote frome Mein Kamf on Hitler's idea of propaganda.
"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)
Its called propaganda Ubermensch.
"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)
How about you silly athesit (not that all atheists are silly) try to prove that Hitler was a Christian with personal statements of his orthodox belief and his behavior? Did Hitler go to Mass? Did he do anything that would suggest that he actually was a Christian with Christian convictions? Did he do anything that might suggest he HATED Christianity, like perhaps kill Christians, destroy churches, threaten the Pope and break nearly every teaching of the Catholic Church?
Ryft thank you for saying clearly, and without tangent, what I intended to say. Once again my only point in starting this thread was to demonstrate that atheist lack sujective value, and I believe that Theism is a well respected and intellectual position which gives subjective value, so why would one not choose a subjectively meaningful system.
The Catholic Church has consistently condemned Nazism to this day and will continue to in the future, including all the Popes since Hitler. Many many priests and Bishops lost their lives condemning nazism. The Pontiff did not condemn it in his day for fear that it would cause the destruction of the Vatican and the loss of even more Catholic lives around the world. Many people do not realize that what the Pope says can cost the lives of thousands, indeed millions.
It is meaningless to say Hitler was a Catholic. He clearly hated everything about the Catholic Church. Would I be an atheist if I consistently called myself an atheist but I sought to root out atheism in the world because I thought it was stupid? Hitler may not have been an atheist, but he certainly wasn't a Christian. I personally think he was an atheist because his motivations came from the idea that evolution was the key destiny of man, and that the chief job of "good" men was to further evolution by destroying the lesser races, and conditioning the greater race to evolve well. And he clearly had no fear of God whatsoever. If anything at all that is an atheistic motivation, in that you seek the meaing behind destiny and right and wrong from a natural source rather than a supernatural source. However, I suppose he could have been a deist or some other jacked up theist, I'm not saying deist are necessarily jacked up, but he would be one jacked up diest in this case.
------
THE FOLLOWING IS QUOTE FROM EINSTEIN TO DEMONSTRATE MY POINT:
Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks….
.
Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.
.
- Albert Einstein, Time magazine, 23rd December, 1940 p. 38
------
Another good bit of evidence is that the Chief Rabbi of Rome converted to Catholicism after WW II and took Pope Piux XII name as his baptismal name. Why? Becuase the Pope heroic effort to selflessly save every Jew he could and his constant commitment to ending the evil of Nazism.
-----
AND NOW QUOTES FROM HITLER TO DEMONSTRATE MY POINT
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
------
A Hitler Youth marching song (Grunberger, A Social History) illustrates it:
We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel, Away with incense and Holy Water, The Church can go hang for all we care, The Swastika brings salvation on Earth.
Ubermensch its called propaganda. Here is a quote frome Mein Kamf on Hitler's idea of propaganda.
"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)
Its called propaganda Ubermensch.
"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)
How about you silly athesit (not that all atheists are silly) try to prove that Hitler was a Christian with personal statements of his orthodox belief and his behavior? Did Hitler go to Mass? Did he do anything that would suggest that he actually was a Christian with Christian convictions? Did he do anything that might suggest he HATED Christianity, like perhaps kill Christians, destroy churches, threaten the Pope and break nearly every teaching of the Catholic Church?
