Sad thought about Jesus.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I refuted sound scientific hypothesis by believing in God. I understand completely that my views aren't generally shared by the atheist community or most religious ones for that matter.Nothing to be sorry about, and don't worry about god on science, the two are realistically unlikely to meet  

It wasn't totally clear to me that you understood our views, thought I was reading the often-bandied and rather dubious idea that your god is required for anything good to happen, be it natural events or the deeds of men and women. 

Don't kno what you meant by hive mentality.

You really didn't? Not when I addressed the word "Unity"? Maybe you had something different in mind, but I'll say the word was frequently bandied around churches which I attended on the need for Xtians to stand together on certain things, and they weren't all on issues which non-Christians necessarily found agreeable.

There is an objective morality in all people. It's called our conscience.

There are common traits which evolved in all people, because we are all the same species. Other species which shared our genus probably had them too, to some degree. Your dog has a conscience too, chances are it really aims to please and feels awful when it fails.  The human conscience is a result of complex empathy. Empathy is a wonderful thing, which is not a necessary component in all sociable animal societies, but it exists out of evolutionary necessity in more complexly sociable animals, including humans and apes.

Oh, guess what else is truly wonderful? The scientific facts which can be learned through empirical evidence!

It is imparted by God, to us.

I'm not being testy about this, it's important to recognize how the above statement is an opinion.

All "ideas" in reference to morality or equality should be tested

Agreed.

Never said anything about a doctrine from a religious leader. I'm talking about core scriptures of peaceable generally monotheistic religions, not the teachings, of any one person or religion.

Still not what an atheist has use for, so why play it here?

It's not that without following God one will indeed be a rapist or murderer, but that it teaches of a way of being that is pure and benifitial to all existence.

Got that, now.

However, the record of success as a good model for human behavior isn't nearly as good as has been claimed by anyone promoting Christianity from that angle. There is "don't steal", and "don't commit murder", both which humans avoid doing without being told when they aren't sociopathic. Love of your own parents is naturally healthy, but if they are impossible to love and committed life-scarring, and legally unforgivable abuses, then you probably should not "honor" them. Adultery is usually, although not always cruel, which is why most humans who aren't dicks despise it, even when some in other cultures define that differently (and I do not respect polygamy). "Fornication", when practiced safely by consenting adults, never harmed anyone. "Thou shalt not covet" - why not? It can be at least as much a motivator for success as the precursor to theft. If this wasn't so in the culture of ancient Jewish goat-herders, then good thing we don't live like them now! This leaves the remainder of the infamous 10, which are all about the god which does not apply in the world outside.

One might see themself as without sin. This is false. Just because you don't kill or rape doesn't mean you don't do things out of greed or hate.

That's another no-no! "Sin" is a religious construct, so if you want a discussion on how atheists and Christians can work together for good (at this point I think that's what you mean by unity), then this should not be part of it.

Only Christians believe that people are inexorably born sinners, and therefore in need of your god's forgiveness. The rest of us recognize that we aren't perfect, but will strive to do our best at leaving this world a better place than it was when we entered it anyway. As an atheist, my perspective on our imperfection is that the evidence points out the necessary imperfection of the more-than-probably accidental processes by which we came to exist. An evolutionary process which began from the bottom, showing no signs whatsoever of the top-down approach which would have to have been if it were designed, just keeps on progressing by accident as our changing genes change our traits, and nature sorts out the best for the niche available.

You seem confused. Humans are predatory, they just deceive themselves about it because it isn't nessicarily violent.

Oh, now that's just really cute! Are you not aware of the fact that humans (complexly sociable, upright-walking, and environment-manipulating non-ape) pre-existed your religion and all notions of your god by two million years? The one remaining human species has been around for at least 75 thousand years. They didn't write that far back, nor did they settle as close together in agricultural cities, but their hunter-gather societies are observed in the fossil record as no less complex than would be expected for people living in primitive conditions.

Pop-quiz: Can people who are all predatory on each other live together for 75,000 years, or even 100 years without triggering their species extinction?

Who said Faith in the One Creator GOD started with Moses? Not me, I assure you.

Didn't say that. But before Moses, your god would have to have conversed more directly with his followers, and this is where the story become much too complicated to be really credible.

You speak of empathy and evolution and human nature as if these things weren't all set in motion by God for our sake, not his. Do a little research and you will find a lot of geographical oddities that indicate the worship of a creative force long before written word, and yes, before the time of Moses

So, that's it - you've come here for no better purpose to troll out "atheists are wrong". This is not the place for that!

Faith is intrinsic to the good in man from God because of the exponential amount of bad that is readily observable in general. We must be able to believe in the potential direction of man. Conversely, the obvious observable direction of man is that of greed, prejudice, and atrocity. To state otherwise is not realistic. Another point I would like to point out is that there are quite a number of people who understand there is a God but don't grasp the gravity of the situation, or unknowingly actively work against the very direction they think they are working towards. There are others that are good people for the most part but have some hatred towards others due to the beliefs of the two parties.

So says the Christian on all of that, and always without merit which anybody who thinks different should be sanely expected to respond to positively. Don't expect that from me, either.

You mention observing religion. Know that what I speak of isn't really organized religion, or at very least isn't defined by it.

So it's the gospel according to you then? Well glad you cleared that up, this makes it so much better! Be warned, as I have personally observed this situation, it doesn't end well. It's where the line between religious zealotry and insanity become very, very fuzzy!

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think you quite understand my particular point of view.

Oh, I do because I've been there.

Peace, out.

---