(January 8, 2016 at 9:40 am)MysticKnight Wrote:(January 8, 2016 at 9:31 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: No you're not judgmental, MK. Your reasoning sometimes seems clouded to me in the way you allude to when describing your difficulty in giving other belief systems a fair shake. But you've never struck me as being anything but respectful toward others.
Thank you for your kind words. And other forums and on my specific own faith forum, I always go out of my way to emphasize not all Atheists are destined to hell or are dishonest to themselves. I go out of my way to show Shias for example, they can still be believers in whatever guidance of God has come to them and be submitting to whatever they know to be true of their nature.
I make statements of possibilities of being dishonest here, because I feel if that is the case, people should combat that. But contrary to what people might think and always assume, I never assume any specific individual has been dishonest about the issue to themselves.
I think Atheists are more honest then most religious people in general.
Even though I may sometimes emphasize on human condition, that we don't accept proofs and what not, I think Atheists are more intellectually honest to themselves then most religious people.
That said I've made it clear that I do believe Atheists can make it to heaven and I've clarified the stance of Quran on musta'afeen (those who the proof of God and his religion has not come to them so as to have power to have faith in it or disbelieve in it).
I personally believe most Atheists are musta'afeen as in the case of people of most religions. If there was one people who I don't think are excused it's Sunni scholars who are aware of proofs of Ahlulbayt but reject them. That is to say nothing of the Sunni masses though.
MK once again, there is no Hell, and there is no Heaven. We get you want the story to end neatly in a perfect pretty bow. No, other religions also have their afterlife motifs. The Egyptians did too. Native Americans do. Even Chinese and Japanese have superstitions about ancestor spirits. There is no afterlife, just like you did not exist before you were born 1 billion years ago. The universe was not put here for humans, nor is earth special to the universe.
Now again, accepting that reality is not doom and gloom. You can still find happiness, still have your ups and downs, and still know that their is good in life, without assigning it to old books or superstitions. We promise nothing bad will happen to you if you accept that this is the one life you get. The only thing that will change is the relief you will feel when you realize you don't have to defend unscientific books written by scientifically ignorant humans. And again, we make the same arguments to Jews and Hindus and Christians too.
The only downside to giving up on god claims will be the reaction to those still stuck in it. But as far as being tortured forever for leaving a religion or picking the wrong club, the good news is, there is no Hell to burn in.