(February 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm)Rwandrall Wrote: So in a secular land, Muslims actually let the Law of the Land take over the Law of the Lord. This is pretty damn big. And again, those with those extreme beliefs are still a minority, the majority are good, law-abiding citizens. Your view of Muslims is way too extreme, and again this absolutely stops any dialogue from happening.
First off, were they to not obey the local laws willy-nilly, they would've been deported, jailed or executed. Basic survival dictates that they follow enough laws to get by. Proof lies in the honor killings, riots, etc, that when push comes to shove, they would rather us kowtow to them, than vice a versa.
Still, it is patently obvious that through their actions in the majority of the Umma that left to their own devices, they'd rather force their beliefs and laws onto non-Muslims. See: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Malaysia et al. Without a dictator, the default behavior seems to be theocracy. Hopefully Egypt will change this dynamic, but I will not be holding my breath.
(February 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm)Rwandrall Wrote: 1. "In America": America has strong christian tendencies ? NO WAI !!?! Also America is not the whole world. In fact it's a a rather small part of it.
2. There is a HUGE difference between "wanting" something and "arguing" for it which was what i was talking about.
Pathetic. I grab data to advance my point and the best you can do is shriek "America is not the whole world"? All you are doing is "Nu-uh!"
The US is the easy case - how well do you think homosexuality is accepted in Mexico? Coptic Christians weren't standing around in circles protecting Muslims in Tahrir square from Muslims - they were protecting them from Coptic Christian attacks. This is the United States, with a rather solid population and civil code of conduct. If it is this wonky in America, what makes you think that other places aren't decidedly intolerant. In general, they are more intolerant.
Put some evidence up. Or is your point so weak that you cannot even muster a single datum?
Also, you're pulling an Existentialist with redefining terms and moving goalposts. I will not recognize or address said goalpost moving, which is in the form of splitting hairs between a populations desire and, guess what, desire.
Pro-tip: To argue for something, usually one must have some form of desire linked to it, from attorneys holding the desire to win for their client to a population favoring religious theocracy; we see that usually when a large enough group desires something, they will fight to get it. Arguments included.
(February 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm)Rwandrall Wrote: 80% of the US is Christian, and their religion asks them to kill gays. However there are still gays, and a great number of them too. How do you explain that if they are all crazy insane fanatics ?Never did I state that they are all crazy fanatics - I made statements regarding the hypocrisy of the average condemning the fanatics while indulging in somewhat milder, but still damaging behavior.
To confront your statement about gays existing today, I will return with this gem from my friend:
In the history of Catholicism in Europe, there are many times when they slaughtered protestants, pagans, Jews indiscriminately. Anyone hear of the Spanish Inquisition? (all in the name of testing faith!) The reason Christians don't indiscriminately slaughter today is because laws were passed afterwards after enough times with severe enough punishments that only a few are now daring enough to break the law.
(February 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm)Rwandrall Wrote: First, being a creationist does not make you an extremist. It is a stupid belief to have but it is not something that makes you a murderer. It just makes you an idiot.
And in every single other developed country, creationists are a laughable minority
Creationism is a facet of fundamentalism. Also, in the evidence I presented, I pointed out that quite a large body of people desire theocratic, anti-democratic solutions. That is, at the moment, a pretty damn big signifier of extremism. Also, with violence against gays and women in Christianity and Islam alike happening from Britain to sunny old Arizona, it is not fair to say there is no extremism.
(February 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm)Rwandrall Wrote: The majority of both muslims and christians, at least in developed nations, are reasonable people, and calling them retards and idiots will prevent any useful dialogue from occurring.
What?
FYI - sometimes diplomacy involves insulting. That's a given.
What you're referring to is flower power hippie dialog.
Such a shame it doesn't work. Like a single tool doesn't always work.
There is a strong power of acerbic comments to slice through the crap, often times when we don't have infinite time.
