(March 17, 2009 at 1:12 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: You mean that if a "first cause" was ever found then it could only explain everything else and not itself? And therefore since itself is part of the universe too (i.e - the first part) then the whole universe can't ultimately be explained?
If the "first cause" can't be explained then the whole universe cannot be ultimately explained because the "first cause" is part of the universe.
Now if you are saying then that then I'm sure I agree. How can the "first cause" possibly explained? Its self explanatory. It just exists - something had to exist first as the "first cause" - unless you are going with the totally infinite regress idea or something.
I would think though that when scientists talk of a "first cause" as an ultimate explanation they mean for everything else and not for itself right? Other than it simply being the first thing that was?
That would be like asking for a POSITIVE NUMBER before 0 wouldn't it?
EvF
A "first cause," which is essentially the same thing as a god, does not offer an explanation of why it exists. Supposing indeed that such a thing exists, you can say "I forbear to seek the explanation of this. But it doesn't matter what you say, because no matter whether "all that is" includes such a first cause or not, or such a god or not, all that is cannot be explained. If perchance you find a "first cause" and are sure that that is what it is, you have explained all except the first cause itself. It is true that it is useless to ask what caused something that is assumed to be a hypothetical first cause. But equally, it is useless to ask "what caused everything?" regardless of whether everything includes a "first cause" or not. The essential point is, the whole shebang is never going to have an explanation. A first cause, supposing it exists, wraps the whole problem of Whence and Why Everything Came into itself, and puts a bow on it, but nobody can ever open the package or even give it a shake to try to guess what's inside it. So it certainly does not provide an ultimate explanation of All That Is.
I think it actually is highly problematic that there is a first cause, but what is not highly problematic is that the entirety of things will never be explained. We will always be left with no answer to the question of whence and why everything came.
