Wikihow "how to convert an atheist"

[Drich]

Unless your 'friend' is in middle school this list is a train wreck waiting to happen. Maybe that is why so many of you like it. It puts the theist in a position to be moved about like a pawn, and when ever a talking point comes up you do not like, you can hit any one of the 5 topic stop buttons this list provides, and the theist has the rug pulled out from under them. This is more like a how to convert a theist to Atheism...

The only way to Christ is through Humility. Humility that will never be found if atheist or anyone else for that matter, is allowed to hide behind subjects this well meaning list, that tells Christians certain subjects should be avoided.

Christian Wikihow authors have put together a strategy guide for converting atheists, with a bunch of cutesy pictures.  It actually offers some good advice, some of our theist preacher visitors should read through it before posting.  I find the general focus of the suggestions and warnings quite interesting though "don't debate the specifics of the Bible", "don't discuss Biblical fallacies", "don't talk about Eternal Punishment" - - just talk about how happy your faith has made you.  Tell them about the great people at your church.  Introduce them to church friends.    

indeed.
Trying to sell something, someone else thinks they already have, or do not have a need for is pointless. It's like your dad or spouse putting air in one of your car's tires because it has a slow leak, in it everyday. You may not even know you have slow leak in your tire because you never see it low or it never goes flat, because the tire is being maintained by someone else.

Image if you neighbor says you should get your tire patched, because he sees what your dad/spouse does everyday. Now you go to the one maintaining the tire and ask them directly. What if they said don't worry about it, there is nothing wrong.. Or what if you just do not get your questioned answered? Are you willing to spend 1/2 a day at the tire store (slow leaks can be very hard to find) just on an unconfirmed report?
-Vs-
The person maintaining the tire shows you the issue, or better yet demonstrates it by letting it go flat.

Who is more likely to change what they believe, and do something about this issue? The person who see the problem and has the resolution, or the person who is only looking at the cost and time involved in the resolution and sees no problem?

http://www.wikihow.com/Persuade-an-Athei...-Christian

Here are a few quotes - - I'll hide them, long posts are annoying.  

I will un hide them because i have no issuing with annoying.

"Put yourself in your friend's shoes. Consider how you would respond, if someone were attempting to persuade you to reject your salvation in Christ."

Kinda like comming to an atheist forum, and just standing by what you know to be true.

"If you find yourself pushing to talk much more than patiently listening, this is probably not the genuine concern for the person's conversion or not acceptable as friendly concern; so why bother."

In this format, everything one has to say is read (by me.) That is one of the reason I like this format better than a heated debate.

"In general, it's best to avoid discussing the concept of eternal punishment for non-Christians with an atheist, which will turn into a debate. If someone feels like you're trying to "save" them, it can seem condescending and frustrating for your friend."

I don't feel personally that Church doctrine should ever trump what the bible says. So as far as 'Eternal punishment goes according to the bible, that is reserved for satan. Hell is indeed ever lasting, and in Heaven we are given ever lasting life. But in the bible does it say we will be given ever lasting life and sent to Hell. Jesus Himself says we will be sent to Hell to Die/Be destroyed.

If the subject is brought up I will never shy away from the truth. At the same time I do not believe the truth to be a weapon to beat people with either.

"Don't try to debate the specifics of the Bible. A discussion between a believer and a non-believer doesn't need to be a debate about science, or creationism, or an intricate dissection of the creation of the world as discussed in Genesis."

Yeah... If you can't defend what you know in the full light of 'science' then maybe you should look at what you believe a little harder and ask some of those questions yourself before you go out and help others.

Atheist believe themselves to be logical. So they hide behind 'science' as it is based in logic. In truth, Atheists are faith based people. Reconciling their 'scientific objections' with biblical truth or logically plausible explanation is the only hope they have in seeing their own misplaced faith in what they know of science. In essence take away their 'scientific' objection/paradox and what's left (the reason they still will not believe) comes down to blind faith. So long as the atheist's heart is not harden, it is at this point will you only ever be able to do any good with them.

If one does not address the 'paradoxes' of science no matter how much progress you make this will ultimately undermine the whole effort. Because again, pride will rear its head up at some point and they will go back to the "I'm a modern man of logic and reason" and your faith based crap will come down around them in the wind and rain. You have to ultimately show them that no matter what you believe their is some measure of faith involved.
Granted it takes far more faith to believe in ever changing science, than God, because as Christ points out all that is needed is a mustard seed's worth of faith to get the proof one needs from God.

" If your friend constantly wants to discuss Biblical fallacies, . . . don't engage in debate. All you need to say is "That's not possible to know, and I'm comfortable with that. It doesn't make me any less of a believer."

Seriously??? This will be the atheist goto when ever the conversation starts to get away from him.
You guys (noobs especially) like to get into a debate, and when ever it seems hopless (like my evidence for the exodus thread) you all start grasping at straws like the Ark, or some other think you think 'science' has completely dispelled. As if a red herring will help you save face. when in fact the truth is if you have to default to a red herring to save you from an argument, you have just admitted defeat.

I would say, and stand behind the idea that not only is it possible to reconcile ALL supposed biblical fallacies, they can be used as a tool to turn the tables on the conversation. Remember the Christian represents the Truth of God. The only thing that prevents us from accessing this absolute biblical truth is our own limits set by our denominational/traditional beliefs. If we let go these 'training wheels' and follow God where ever His truth will lead us, He will not let us fall. He will provide the answers to the toughest questions.

And a couple of really good warnings: 
 "Be warned that when approaching the subject of religion with atheists (especially with an eye to conversion) that many atheists you are likely to meet were brought up in or around the Christian faith. Many once believed, honestly and wholeheartedly, were actively involved with their church and held as true all aspects of the faith.

Then the winds and rain Jesus Christ Himself promised would come to test our faith/house, and because it was not built on the proper foundation that house/faith collapsed, and rather than take the opportunity to rebuild by admitting that their brand of Christianity was so corrupt that God could not support it. they wrongly assume that their can't be a God, because He did not acknowledge their 'born into version of Christianity.'

This is what I meant by pride. a proud hearts says if their was a God He would surly recognized MY efforts because they were sincere...

But what if as I said, your most sincere efforts were Sooooo Corrupt that if God supported you, it would allow you to wander further from Him rather than bring you closer?

Imagine you believe that God was a mirical merchant of sorts. Or a magic genie. One you could barter with for unlimited wishes. All you need do is do something 'good' in exchange for a wish. Now what if you sincerely believed this with all you had, and no matter how far you were from God's truth you actually are, is He supposed to support you, no matter what? What if he started granting these wish exchanges? would this push you to give up your current idea of God and seek him out as the bible describes? or would this just push you deeper into your delusion?

That is why Christ gave us the parable of the wise and foolish builders. Wise man builds his house on the rock foolish man builds his house on the sand. The house is all of the stuff that makes up our faith/belief. God sends the wind and rain/trials questions and adversity to test what we build. To test our faith. If our faith/belief is built as it should be our house will stand. If it is built as a foolish man builds a house, it will fall, and you will apparently become an atheist.

In time these ex-Christians, through personal reasons came to a place where they did not hold the beliefs anymore and turned away from them. Frequently they had questions in their religious life and beliefs and went seeking answers, some in discussions with their priest, pastor, peers, and some studied the Bible, studied philosophy, religious history, comparative religion and science.

all of that study are just supports in a house with no foundation, still doomed to collapse when tested.

You may believe you are bringing them a fresh and bright message of good news, one they are unaware of, but they may have a greater academic knowledge of their ideas of their subjects than you do of yours.

I'd like to finally meet one of these atheists.. but my feeling is they are like unicorns, and their deity of worship the FSM.

Yes, yes.. you are all very smart and very intimidating intellectually. I'm sure anyone of you could unseat a mega church by crushing the faith of everyone inside with 'science.' Just keep telling yourselves that because I use the wrong 'there' from time to time I don't know what I'm talking about.

 -- Talking with your friend on the subject of God and faith just might open questions you can't readily answer, and might cause confusion or doubt."

So?!?!? They are already atheists!!! they live in confusion and doubt. This is the purpose of the debate 9 times out of 10 to cause confusion and doubt in the theist. If the theist can cause enough confusion and doubt in them, then maybe an honest atheist will start seeking the truth again.
This is a terrible piece of advise! Confusion and doubt in what they believe is like putting a big crack in their wall of defense.
This last statement is written by someone who feels the need to "close the deal" on a specific person. When in reality 'we' (those who challenge atheists) are seed broadcasters (as in the parable of the types of soil). we are not harvesters. our job is to till the soil and try and get the seed to take root, not to bake bread from the grain harvest.

"It is very likely your friend will not convert. Most Atheists have a solid view of what they believe, and while most are open to discussion, the chance of one converting is more than unlikely."

A true atheist has a good chance of converting. (if they will even have a discussion)
However most people who assign themselves the title 'atheist' are not true atheists. They are Misotheist. A Misotheist hates God. like atheist, misotheists will not acknowledge God, but this is done out of spite rather than just disbelief. Atheists, true atheists are neutral and don't care. a misotheist is a bit more practiced and actively seeks to disprove or destroy the idea of God in others. The miso is the blind faith/hate person who hides behind the logic and reason of 'science' and in truth is a creature of faith just like the Christian. All one need do is strip away his supposed 'logic and reason' to expose who or what this person truly is. (not that he will change) but you can have some fun exposing them as a hypocrite and practice for the real atheists.