RE: Introducing Meee!
March 12, 2016 at 9:56 am
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2016 at 10:13 am by Panatheist.)
(March 12, 2016 at 9:00 am)Alex K Wrote:(March 12, 2016 at 8:24 am)Panatheist Wrote: When I say the cosmos may be self-existent I mean that it is able to exist somehow of itself without need for dependence on an origin outside of itself. I do not know what physicists say about this in general except that at least a few have made arguments for this possibility (an eternal self-existent universe). I will be looking for threads on this topic or if need be start one myself.
Wouldn't an "origin of the universe outside of the universe" simply extend our notion of what encompasses the universe?
Not for those who believe that origin is Absolute (immaterial) Being, that is, God. And if it came from another universe I'm not sure we would count it as an extension of our own or not. I presume not if it's outside of our universe' space-time. (The description of the God origin I provided here is a reference to my friend's reasoning.)
(March 12, 2016 at 9:12 am)ignoramus Wrote: Pana ... it's easy to get into the word games fallacy when talking about philosophy or abstract concepts.
Ask yourself first what you think the word "universe" or "reality" means.
You'll find that many Christians like to hide God outside of time and space where he can never be disproven.
Again, more word play! Are there some road signs at the end of our universe which say: Warning space and time have not been constructed - do not cross!
Actually we're not complaining though, as 90% of our entertainment comes from these specially enlightened group of people.
Well I'm not sure what it means either but I didn't know if anything in the universe might somehow be exempt from space-time (quantum events?)
I did object that invoking God doesn't really explain anything. He says it does: self-realizing absolute being independent of any origin which also realizes all possibilities in itself (therefore it emanates creation) stops an infinite regress and explains the origins of our cosmos (which he says cannot be eternal in any way shape or form). He says this is self-evident and necessary even though absolute being cannot be explained.
I am simply agnostic to that claim and very skeptical. It just seems like an invented definition. And I'm not convinced that energy itself is not eternal even though the forms and structure of the cosmos aren't.
Oh and I suppose another universe would be an example of something outside of our space-time and that I can conceive of and it may have its own space-time. Of course I'm sure most theists aren't intending to argue that God is merely confined to an alternative universe.
