(March 13, 2016 at 3:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:(March 13, 2016 at 2:56 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: This premise seems eminently disputable. I can think up a possible world in which it is good to torture a being forever and ever for no crime. Namely the world in which moral values are determined by a consensus of society. In such a world, society could decide that it's good to punish people for no reason whatsoever, to keep you on your toes. I don't live in such a world, nor would I want to live in such a world, but nonetheless it is a possible world..... unless you're begging the question by saying that this is objectively immoral. You wouldn't be begging the question now, would you?It's objectively immoral is no doubt part of that premise. When I am talking about morality, I'm talking about how it classically was defined. For example, a person says "That's the moral thing to do...", would mean he is talking about in a true sense. "I think this is moral, this is moral according to these people, etc..." is from the angle it's not necessarily true morality but a perception of morals that maybe true or not.
I'm not begging the question. I am not trying to prove morality is objective through this argument, I'm using such a belief to prove a Creator that is the source of morality. I'm trying to prove a eternal creator through it, that is the source of morality and that morality is eternal.
You've just defined a God who is a passive witness to morality. That's not the God of any JudeoChristian religion.