Is Lack of Belief the Best You Can Do?

[Simon Moon]

I'm not selling anything other than reason.  We're on the same page in that regard.  So let's reason together.

1) There is no proof that holy books are qualified to make credible statements about the fundamental nature of all reality.  So until such proof is provided, we decline to believe in such an ability. 

2) There is no proof that human reason is qualified to make credible statements about the fundamental nature of all reality.  So until such proof is provided, we decline to believe in such an ability.

Sorry, but if you are putting the credibility of ancient texts on the same footing as reason (evidence and sound/valid logic), we may not have anything left to talk about.

Not to mention that you are misusing the word "proof". "Evidence" is the correct word to use in the context. And no, I'm not being pedantic, terms and definitions matter. 

See?  This is very simple reasoning.  No fancy anything required.  All that's needed is to apply a sensible challenge in an even handed manner to all authorities.  That is, all that's needed is reason.  Not ideology.  Reason.  

So, do you also apply this "even handed manner" with regards to unicorns and garden fairies?

Again, the position that an even handed manner should be applied to ancient texts and their supernatural claims, to the efficacy of reason, is just plain silly.

So let's keep reasoning.  What's next?

Some people may be happy to stop here.  They will say, if we can't know anything about gods one way or the other, let's focus on something we can know something about.  There's nothing wrong with such a decision of course.  Let's call these folks agnostics.

Other people will want to keep on going.   Here's how we might do that.  Embrace the fact of our ignorance.  Stop chasing fantasy knowings of various theist or atheist flavors, and mine what we actually do have, our ignorance.  Atheists are always talking about facing reality etc, so this should not be such an unfamiliar concept.

But we can know some things about gods. Their complete invisibility, seems to make them indistinguishable from being nonexistent.

I admit, that I am not absolutely certain, that  gods do not exist.

I just see no reason to believe they do.

I call this the fundamentalist agnostic position, for lack of a better phrase.  The fundamentalist agnostic doesn't just reject theism or atheism.   They reject the point of agreement that theism and atheism both share, the notion that the goal of the inquiry should be to establish a knowing.

The fundamentalist agnostic observes that there is no evidence that a knowing is available by any means.  Thus, the endless search for a knowing by all parties to the theist/atheist debate  is seen to be irrational.

What is rational is to make the best possible use of what we actually have in abundance on this subject, ignorance.  This is not as odd as it may at first seem.

First of all, atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive positions.

Basically, all you are doing is describing a form of solipsism.  No need to make up new terms to describe yourself.


So, I ask again. Do you currently accept the premise, that at least one god exists, to be true?

I'm not asking for knowledge statements, only what you believe.