Death Penalty

[Eilonnwy]

I don't believe that the death penalty is inherently immoral or anything like that ... I can't because I believe force (military, police, law etc.) is an essential component of society. Without someone to maintain the peace, someone to stand the watch none of us would have the freedoms, the perceived "rights" we have. Also, if it could be demonstrated beyond doubt that someone actually was genuinely guilty of a crime abhorrent enough to merit death, I'd be fine with it ... that's not entirely true as will become clear .

I disagree with that sentiment. To be clear, I don't think there is a way to 100% convict someone, that's why it's "beyond a reasonable doubt" so the usual arguments against the death penalty like mistakes and statistics showing it's more costly to execute, etc... are strong enough on their own.

However let's say we can prove absolutely that someone was guilty of a heinous crime, and let's say it was raping and killing a 6 year old girl. I think a lot of people have a gut reaction that someone like that deserves to die. I personally don't. My belief is that if we take the position that killing is inherently wrong than even government sanctioned killing is wrong. I don't agree with war in pretty much all cases. I realize avoiding war at this stage is unrealistic but I take an idealized view that we should work towards a peaceful solution always and use force as a last means. I think in this day and age we are quick to use deadly force, too quick.

The only time I feel killing another human is okay is when your life is in danger and the only way to save it is to kill the person threatening it. I realize this can be stretched out to war and can also incorporate the idea that killing a murderer protects human life he might take in the future. Ignoring the war issue because it's a whole different topic I think the latter argument doesn't work because we have the ability to lock up murderers for life.

Now the argument can be made that that system is imperfect and murderers can and have gone free to kill again. But we have to recognize that all man-made systems are imperfect. We do the best we can with what we have, I think we need to always strive for perfection but there are bound to be errors that will result in innocent people being put to jail/death. But how many people put to death can be released when it's found out later they were guilty.

Kyuu, I agree with your sentiment about the Jury and about the cases being a lot about winning and losing. I've been on a jury and while it was for a lawsuit, I totally get where you're coming from. This adds an inherent flaw in the system that will always result in some wrongful convictions.

There is definitely a visceral reaction to say a child killer. I think we need move past that and realize our system isn't perfect and death is a permanent punishment that can never be reversed when proven wrong. I think morally as a society we are slowly moving past the idea of death as a reasonable punishment, and not because maybe people deserve death but because the risk of killing an innocent is more important. I have an 11 year old sister. If something like that happened to her, do I think I could continue to hold this position? To be absolutely honest, I have no idea. I can completely understand where a person is coming from who has lost a loved one like that and wants capital punishment. But like I said, I think morally we need to move past that, overcome our gut reaction with a more reasoned one.

I also reject the notion of any supernatural karma. I accept the reality that innocents suffer and guilty people escape justice. I think in death there's nothing, no hell. I find hell to be a horrendous belief to have, I don't think ANY crime is worth ETERNAL punishment. I think in general we need to do everything to protect and help the innocents rather than hunt down the guilty because there is a trafeoff and I think the former is more important.

Wow, this became long and rather tangential.

I think our gut visceral