EU: Should the UK Leave or Stay?

[Thumpalumpacus]

You say the stupidest shit when you get wound up.

Well I guess if people didn't say such stupid shit to me in the first place I wouldn't say stupid shit back.

I've read back through this and it really is ironic that I'm accused of only using emotional arguments and not listening.

Seems like the opposite is happening to me.

I listed multiple reasons and points, none of which have much to do with emotion.

We spend 8.5 billion a year net on the EU. Fact.

The open border policy of the EU has directly enabled the free movement of terrorists across the continent. Fact.

Unelected EU officials have a say in at least 50% of UK laws. Fact.

But Obama's speech was persuasive and he made valid points? Am I missing something? All he basically said was that the UK was stronger in the EU and that we'd be the bottom of his priority list in creating a new trade deal.

Well with the latter, quite frankly I think you're an absolute moron if you think this will actually be the case. And with the former, he has literally no basis for saying this. How can the UK be stronger in an economic/political union that has no control over its own borders, that has already seen multiple countries go bankrupt, that the UK is the second largest monetary contributor, that has a massive disparity between the poorest countries and the richest? Who in their right mind believes this except for the incredibly idealistic?

Well, I've refrained from offering this imputed opinion, or any other opinion for that matter on the current issue, other than providing a comparison from history. But I haven't accused you of emotional argumentation, nor have I even paid attention to Obama's speech on the matter in order to form a sound judgment of his points. My own inclination is to concern myself with the doings in my own country and not bother or badger citizens elsewhere about theirs own doings when they don't affect me, and when I'm clearly not as well-informed as they are about their more-local events and issues. I like learning about other places and other issues, but understand that some opinions are worth more than others, and on this issue, my opinions, such as they are, aren't terribly deep and are even less relevant.

For what it's worth, I've enjoyed this discussion, reading both sides of it, because it's making me think -- your points included.

The only reason why I pointed out the fact that you say stupid shit sometimes is because gratuitous generalizations are irksome to me ... especially a Limey criticizing Yanks for hypocrisy. My irony meter faltered for a bit on that one.

Outside that one bit, I'm finding the views here interesting and informative, from both sides.

Carry on.