Physical idealism

[The Grand Nudger]

Do you understand that I've never argued against either materialism nor evolution in this thread, and that your strawmen are irrelevant?  Why should I support the words you put in my mouth?

When you claim that the "idea of limbness" is independant of it's mechanism (-s-..plural...I;ll remind you again..since you didn;t acknowledge that you understood your misstep there), or is the thing that's evolving.....you have argued against both materialism, and the ToE. 

I've discussed everything you've asked about at least three times already, and you've discarded it then parroted on as though I'd never discussed it.

Because your answers were and remain unsatisfactory.

There are clearly formative factors in the universe, which serve as building blocks in ways that the structures they supervene on could not.  A collection of steel cannot, for example, spontaneously fly through the air and put a hole in someone's head.  It is the idea of a bullet which allows actual bullets to come into existence, is it not?

No.  That would be what you need to find a way to demonstrate, and the sentences which preceded it do not lend support to the claim.  I'll stick with our experience of reality, wherein no "idea of a bullet" is sufficient to explain any given bullet - just as DNA is insufficient to explain any given biological structure.  Wherein our ideas of bullets, like our ideas of physical structures, are dependant upon..you know, the bullets the structures.

You will now special plead: well of COURSE it's an idea, people made it.  But unless you want to argue that humanity is outside the circle of material cause and effect, it's obvious that a person is killed by the physical expression of an idea which itself isn't limited to any particular medium: it can be passed on by word of mouth, by picture, or by text.

Actually I don't think that bullets are ideas -at all-, I think they're weighted projectiles about which you -have- ideas.  

So the exact kind of thing I'm talking about clearly is a reality.

There you go, using the word "clearly"..as though that were the end of it

 The question is whether this is unique to humans, or whether it's intrinsic to the way the universe functions.  And the answer to this is all around us, and in us.  The DNA is not a little image of a person, but a collection of ideas about what a person should look like, and how a person should behave.  These are the formative factors which allow an assortment of chemicals to be brought together into a coherent, functioning human being-- which could not exist without the ideas encoded in that DNA.  They are physical, and they are ideas, because they are representations of something which may be brought into being, but which does not exist yet.

Is that the question...lol? Is the question of whether or not what you're describing is accurate -in the first place- one which you no longer feel like discussing? DNA is not a collection of ideas, it's a collection of organic chemicals. They aren;t "brought together" to do anything at all.....and the "formative factors" which allow these chemicals to do what they do, are not ideas either...but the material interactions between them and their environment.....-about which you have strange ideas-. The "physical idealism" you've describd is just a window dressing for plain old materialism...and also happens to be woefully inaccurate with regards to limbs and bullets.

Yes, I'll keep repeating this until your descriptions change or you lose interest, no matter how many times we've discussed it from now until then.