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A challenge to Statler Waldorf
#16
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf
Okie dokie, here goes…

There is a very strong case that can be made suggesting atheism is as much a religion as Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism and here it is in a nutshell.
For the purpose of this ‘challenge’ I will be defining atheism more in the western sense which defines atheism as not just the lack of belief in God or gods but also the lack of belief in spirits and the supernatural as well. Since the vast majority of atheists on this board are strict materialists I do not anticipate any objections on this.
So now we must look at two major factors that make atheism a religion.

A. It falls under the legal definition for a religion.
B. It falls under the scientific definition of a religion.

Point A)
Modern atheism is split on this issue, many atheists want to be recognized as a legal religion because it gives them the same rights to expression on public lands as current religions have (an example would be putting up atheistic signs in capitol buildings near other religious symbols such as nativity scenes). On the other side of the divide atheists do not want to be associated with religions because they feel that their anti-religious arguments would crumble if they were part of a religion themselves. Sadly for these people, atheism has been legally deemed a religion on numerous occasions. Two examples would be…

When an inmate was denied the ability to hold an atheistic study group he sued claiming it violated his religious freedoms. The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in Wisconsin ruled in 2005 that atheism is indeed a religion. The court stated, “ "Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being.,"

Another death knell came for the “atheism is not a religion” crowd over 40 years prior to the above case when in 1961 the US Supreme Court decided that a religion did in no way require the belief in a supreme being in the Torcaso v. Watkins case. In its list of examples it included both atheism and secular humanism as such religions.
It will be interesting to see if the people who are so quick to point to court decisions concerning creationism and intelligent design will be as excited about these court decisions deeming them legally religious.

Point B)

The most common test given to determine “religiousmanship” is the “Seven Dimensions of Religion” developed by Anthropologist Ninian Smart. Religions do not need to possess all seven dimensions in order to qualify and the system the most widely used in anthropology and archeology. The seven dimensions are: narrative, experiential, social, ethical, doctrinal, ritual and material. Let’s look how atheism does on the test.

Narrative: This is simply the story told as to why we are here and how we came to be here. Nearly all atheists believe that the universe came about by purely naturalistic means and that man is just another one of the animals. These two concepts are incredibly important to how the atheist views the world. As Dawkins even said,
“Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.”
Which helps to demonstrate just how closely tied atheism is to evolution and the narrative of how we all got here and what our real purpose is (survival).

Experiential: There are two components to this dimension. The first is what the person experiences before they are a member of the religion that drives them to join. For atheists this is usually a heavy indoctrination into Darwinism. Most atheists can even pinpoint this down to a single moment in life when they affirmed the non-existence of God and the supernatural, almost the mirror image of the Christian’s time of regeneration.

The second component is after they join the religion. Many atheists including Christopher Hitchens and Carl Marx describe their conversion to atheism as a feeling of freedom or liberation. Hitchens even describes Darwin as the great liberator, filling a very similar role as Moses to Jews and Jesus to Christians.

Social: The social aspect of atheism is greatly driven by evangelism within the religion. Dawkins says in his book The God Delusion that, “If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down.”
Atheism also has its fair share of apostates just like many other religions. When one time atheistic poster child Antony Flew decided to leave atheism and become a Christian he was viciously attacked by many who used to praise his work when he was still an atheist including Richard Dawkins. If atheism really was just the absence of belief and not a religion then why would any atheists care who was with them? I don’t believe in Santa Claus but I really don’t care if anyone else does or not.

Doctrinal: Doctrines are any beliefs that logically derive from a religion. Secular Humanism directly arose from atheism and is heavily ascribed to by many atheists today. Moral relativism also has very heavy ties to atheism.

Ethics: Atheism has proposed many different ethics systems, almost all are closely tied to Darwinism and all are morally relativistic. Some atheists live by the ethics of other religions and others live by governmental laws which are usually inspired by other religions.

Ritual: Because Atheism is a fairly young religion, it has not developed any major rituals. Although atheists are beginning to recognize Darwin’s birthday every February (some wanting it to even be a federally recognized holiday), so this is quickly becoming a ritual for the atheistic religion.
Material: This includes all the physical things created or greatly regarded by a religion. Many atheists have a very high view for nature. They see earth as having some form of authority over man, and survival is man’s number one purpose. The atheist’s view of nature is also heavily influenced by Darwinism.

That finishes up the Seven Dimensions of a Religion, outlining them for atheism is actually far easier than it is for some of the other religions such as Buddhism and Jainism.

Footnotes:
Many atheists do not feel they belong to a religion, however this is completely irrelevant as to whether they really do or not- Christianity would still be a religion even if Jesus said it was not one.
Many atheists try and make the argument that atheism is not a positive belief but rather the absence of belief. However the absence of belief would also necessarily imply absence of knowledge about a certain subject and not many atheists would say they do not know there is no God. This new definition of atheism is actually a revisionist’s definition. The traditional definition of atheism is summed up by the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy as follows,
““Atheism is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive belief rather than mere suspension of disbelief.”

Atheism was the offical state religion of the former Soviet Unition.

-SW



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Messages In This Thread
A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - April 15, 2011 at 6:43 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 15, 2011 at 6:54 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by KichigaiNeko - April 15, 2011 at 6:56 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Darwinian - April 15, 2011 at 7:44 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by gorgonopsid - May 5, 2011 at 4:47 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by lilphil1989 - April 15, 2011 at 8:03 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by theVOID - April 15, 2011 at 9:13 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by downbeatplumb - April 15, 2011 at 9:46 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by TheDarkestOfAngels - April 15, 2011 at 11:22 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Of_Tomato - April 15, 2011 at 3:09 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Statler Waldorf - April 15, 2011 at 3:25 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - April 15, 2011 at 3:39 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by HeyItsZeus - April 15, 2011 at 3:44 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Statler Waldorf - April 15, 2011 at 6:30 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by HeyItsZeus - April 15, 2011 at 10:12 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by LastPoet - April 15, 2011 at 5:16 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Statler Waldorf - April 15, 2011 at 7:59 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - April 15, 2011 at 9:17 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Faith No More - April 15, 2011 at 11:24 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Justtristo - April 16, 2011 at 1:23 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by downbeatplumb - April 16, 2011 at 5:51 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by darkblight - May 5, 2011 at 12:51 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - April 16, 2011 at 6:01 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Thor - April 22, 2011 at 2:08 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 22, 2011 at 4:19 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Thor - April 22, 2011 at 4:51 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - April 16, 2011 at 2:04 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Rayaan - April 16, 2011 at 3:15 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Statler Waldorf - April 18, 2011 at 9:33 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Justtristo - April 19, 2011 at 7:05 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - April 19, 2011 at 7:49 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - April 19, 2011 at 8:45 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by lilphil1989 - April 19, 2011 at 2:25 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Skipper - April 19, 2011 at 5:50 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by KichigaiNeko - April 19, 2011 at 6:46 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by orogenicman - April 19, 2011 at 5:03 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Statler Waldorf - April 19, 2011 at 8:50 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - April 19, 2011 at 10:35 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by lilphil1989 - April 20, 2011 at 6:24 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 20, 2011 at 6:39 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by lilphil1989 - April 20, 2011 at 6:48 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - April 20, 2011 at 7:06 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - April 20, 2011 at 6:37 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by reverendjeremiah - April 19, 2011 at 10:14 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Rainydays - April 20, 2011 at 5:48 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Ace Otana - April 20, 2011 at 7:16 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Boreasos - April 20, 2011 at 7:43 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 20, 2011 at 8:22 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by reverendjeremiah - April 20, 2011 at 1:47 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - April 20, 2011 at 8:43 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by downbeatplumb - April 20, 2011 at 1:51 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 20, 2011 at 1:51 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by downbeatplumb - April 20, 2011 at 1:59 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - April 20, 2011 at 2:45 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 20, 2011 at 4:38 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Thor - April 20, 2011 at 3:00 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 20, 2011 at 3:46 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Thor - April 20, 2011 at 4:07 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by thesummerqueen - April 20, 2011 at 4:14 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Thor - April 20, 2011 at 4:21 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by KichigaiNeko - April 21, 2011 at 5:29 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Thor - April 21, 2011 at 10:13 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by KichigaiNeko - April 22, 2011 at 5:20 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by TheDarkestOfAngels - April 21, 2011 at 12:52 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - April 22, 2011 at 9:50 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by reverendjeremiah - April 23, 2011 at 11:00 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - April 24, 2011 at 3:57 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by KichigaiNeko - April 24, 2011 at 4:41 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - April 24, 2011 at 11:27 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by reverendjeremiah - April 24, 2011 at 3:25 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - May 5, 2011 at 8:53 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - May 6, 2011 at 6:45 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 5, 2011 at 4:18 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Thor - May 6, 2011 at 2:53 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 5, 2011 at 4:26 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Darwinian - May 5, 2011 at 4:53 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 5, 2011 at 5:29 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 6, 2011 at 2:30 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 6, 2011 at 2:44 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 5, 2011 at 7:38 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - May 7, 2011 at 5:35 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 6, 2011 at 2:57 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 6, 2011 at 3:11 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Minimalist - May 6, 2011 at 5:49 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by padraic - May 6, 2011 at 6:56 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 6, 2011 at 8:10 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 6, 2011 at 8:48 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Minimalist - May 6, 2011 at 8:50 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by padraic - May 6, 2011 at 9:49 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 7, 2011 at 4:42 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Maria - May 7, 2011 at 4:56 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 7, 2011 at 10:20 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 8, 2011 at 1:48 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 10, 2011 at 12:13 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 10, 2011 at 2:59 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 10, 2011 at 3:42 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 8, 2011 at 4:53 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 8, 2011 at 6:09 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 9, 2011 at 1:16 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 10, 2011 at 1:28 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 10, 2011 at 2:18 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - May 11, 2011 at 5:27 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 11, 2011 at 4:39 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by SleepingDemon - May 11, 2011 at 12:47 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 11, 2011 at 8:55 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Statler Waldorf - May 11, 2011 at 10:58 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 12, 2011 at 6:17 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 11, 2011 at 1:03 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 11, 2011 at 3:01 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 11, 2011 at 5:48 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 11, 2011 at 6:58 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 11, 2011 at 9:03 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 11, 2011 at 9:07 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 11, 2011 at 9:10 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by SleepingDemon - May 12, 2011 at 12:15 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Statler Waldorf - May 12, 2011 at 12:47 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by SleepingDemon - May 12, 2011 at 1:29 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by SleepingDemon - May 12, 2011 at 1:42 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by downbeatplumb - May 12, 2011 at 2:16 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by orogenicman - May 13, 2011 at 7:57 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 15, 2011 at 1:20 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 15, 2011 at 1:26 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 15, 2011 at 2:58 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 15, 2011 at 3:05 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by orogenicman - May 15, 2011 at 10:21 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 16, 2011 at 6:21 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 16, 2011 at 6:27 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 16, 2011 at 6:42 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by orogenicman - May 17, 2011 at 7:16 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 12, 2011 at 1:50 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by SleepingDemon - May 12, 2011 at 2:04 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by SleepingDemon - May 12, 2011 at 2:34 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 12, 2011 at 7:48 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 13, 2011 at 5:16 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by LastPoet - May 13, 2011 at 8:06 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Shell B - May 16, 2011 at 6:51 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Zen Badger - May 17, 2011 at 7:08 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Eudaimonia - May 16, 2011 at 7:35 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Anomalocaris - May 16, 2011 at 7:55 pm
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Angrboda - May 17, 2011 at 12:18 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Eudaimonia - May 17, 2011 at 8:30 am
RE: A challenge to Statler Waldorf - by Girlysprite - May 17, 2011 at 1:38 am

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