If atheism is really not a religion then why should atheists enjoy the same religious freedoms as actual religions? Can’t have your cake and eat it too, I am sorry.
Well I am sure you are aware that Secular Humanism was developed by atheists, so not really sure what your point is there. The fact of the matter is that the court in Wisconsin DID conclude atheism was a religion and the Supreme Court DID conclude that religions do not require a belief in a supreme being in order to be classified as religions. You can ignore these facts all you want, but it does not dimension the validity of my argument any.
Quote: Fail. All atheists would have to believe the same "narrative" for this to apply to atheism.
Wrong, not all Christians agree on the Christian Narrative, some believe the Earth is old, some believe it is young, some believe God used Evolution, but most do not. I would challenge you to find any atheists who do not believe that life on earth evolved through natural means. Nice try.
Quote: Fail again. "Indoctrination into Darwinism?"Ahh but you have still read it? Not surprising at all, and unless you were raised by illiterate natives in the jungles of South America you were heavily indoctrinated with Darwinian Theory from grade school on. Try and be honest here.I didn't even read "On the Origin of Species" until I was in my twenties.
Quote: I don't see where you went from point a to point b. Experience after joining a religion . . . great liberator. Christ, you could be an Olympian with that jump.
The fact you are having difficulties keeping up is irrelevant to the validity of my argument.
Quote: Okay, Dawkins may have said that. What about every other atheist?
Doesn’t matter, not all Christians are interested in evangelism, but most of their leaders are just like the atheistic leaders like Dawkins and Hitchens.
Quote: He was attacked by individuals. There are a ton of those when it comes to atheism.
He was attacked by atheistic leaders, atheistic organizations, and atheistic publications.
Quote: *sigh* How can something have very heavy ties to something that can be described, at most, with a sentence?
Let me be clearer, the atheistic worldview and presuppositions gave rise to secular humanism. I have never run across an atheist who believes in absolute morality because it is not closely tied to the atheist religion, however atheists who openly believe in moral relativism are a dime a dozen because it is very closely tied.
Quote: Um, nope. I do what I think it right. It has nothing to do with law or your silly book.
Ok, so you do what YOU think is right, that is moral relativism so thanks for proving that point for me. Now if we went through what you think is right I can guarantee it could be traced back to Judeo-Christian ethics. So thanks again.
Quote: Fail. Again. Atheism is at least as old as Christianity. There are no rituals because it is not a religion.Sure there were people who didn’t believe in God even before Christianity, but these people were not part of the atheist religion. The Atheist religion is very young as far as religions go.
Quote: It is pretty easy to pull shit out of your ass.
What are you? 13?
Quote: So you admit that Christians would deny the word of God's son if it didn't suit them? Oh, wait, wasn't he God?
Nope but scientists, the judicial system and historians would, and they are who decides what officially counts as a religion or not, try and keep up, I know it’s hard.
Quote: I love astute atheists.
I would love them too if I ever could find one. Unfortunately they are far and few between these days.
Quote: Wait, what? To not believe in fairies, you have to have never heard of fairies. Do you read what you write?
I hold the positive believe that fairies do not exist, I affirm their non-existence. Just like you hold positive belief that God does not exist. Do you not read what I write?
Oh, Statler, how you love your Soviets. Tell me, do you define genocide in the same way Stalin did? If not (I sincerely hope not), why would you go with the Soviet definition of atheism?
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Non- sequitur, just because Stalin didn’t define one thing correctly in no way means he defined everything incorrectly. Stalin defined atheism the exact same way you do, I am sorry if that makes your religion look bad but you will learn to live with it.
I didn't use the Bible you silly goose (I could have), I used logic. I will try and make it simpler for you.
Person A and Person B are standing in a room.
If Person A says, "I tell the truth all the time and so does Person B" but then person B says, "I am the only person in the room who tells the truth" then it is obvious Person A is not telling the truth because if they were then they would be lying because of the two contradictory claims they have made. Very simple logic.
Quote: Your whole argument can be summed up as one big over generalization akin to "all catholics are pedophiles."
Actually my argument is akin to "Christianity is a religion" or "Islam is a religion".
True statement, but Marxism was not the official religion of the Soviet State, atheism was. May I ask though, why are you no longer a Marxist?
I was desperately hoping Chuck that maybe for once you would actually try and refute one of my arguments. *sigh* Disappointed again.
Yes I was aware of that; all the verses in the Bible that contradict the Quran have been tampered with and changed, very conveniently. It's the same argument the Mormons make, retroactive verification of the Bible is completely illogical though.
(April 16, 2011 at 5:51 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: I just read the legal and scientific definitons and you are wrong on both counts.Well apparently those judges in Wisconsin who have actually been to law school disagree with you. So does the Encyclopedia of Philosophy for that matter.
Quote: The definitions of both put wieght on peoples beliefs in but atheism is a rejection of beliefs.
There are lots of religions you dont believe in Statler, does your lack of faith in Islam your become your religion?
First of all- no, atheism is the positive belief in the non-existence of God, you are trying to play revisionist games here. Secondly, I do not believe in other religions because of my religion (Christianity) just like you reject them because of your religion (Materialistic Atheism).
Quote: What I want is freedom from religion, but the right to be secular has to be fought for in theoracratic countries like the US of stupid A. If that means playing he system then so be it.
If you want freedom from religion then you are going to have to stop being an atheist. You are just as religious as I am right now.
Quote: That last bunch of sweeping generalisations does not require taking apart individually.
Atheism was the official doctrine of the soviet union and not its religion coz it didnt have one
So you just ignore the rest of my points? Nice job.
The Soviet Union required its people to “profess atheism” in order to hold government and high social positions. Not sure how you can profess an absence of belief. The Soviet Union practiced “State Atheism”, just like I said.
Well if you had actually read my post you would know that I said that atheism does not have any current rituals because it is a fairly young religion. However, many atheists are proposing the anniversary of Darwin’s birth as something that should be celebrated by all atheists.
Now you are just being intellectually dishonest. Can you find a modern atheistic leader who does not believe that the universe arose by naturalistic means and that life on earth developed through Darwinian Evolution? You can’t, because it is a core piece of the atheistic religion’s narrative. It also says these things are “often” revealed, they do not have to be.
Again this is, a question for Dr. Smart and the anthropologists who use this system (which is most of them) not me. You are doing nothing to demonstrate how atheism is not a religion though.
Again, it just says “often” revealed, you are having trouble with that word today. I am sure you are aware that atheists came up with what is known as “Human Secularism”- which of course does contain rules for human behavior. Nearly all atheists are also morally relativistic, telling people that they make up their own wrong and right is still formulating rules about how people should behave.
You are right, I am sure the Bible is a bit over your head philosophically.
Does not have to be a building and it does not have to symbolize the supernatural, just has to be sacred. Many atheists consider the environment, science, empiricism, Darwin’s birthday, and materialism all to be sacred. They don’t all have to agree on what it is that is sacred, not all Christians agree on what is and is not sacred.
Actually none of them have these as a requirement; they use the word “often. Maybe you need to look that word up.
Quote:- Christianity would still be a religion even if Jesus said it was not one.You would argue with your god?!?!?!? [/quote]
Nope, but I am not who determines what is and is not a religion. The people who do would surely classify Christianity as a religion regardless of what Christ had said. Sorry if that was confusing.
Quote:Atheism(despite your jingosim) is still merely an absence of belief in a god or gods.
I will take the most highly regarded Encyclopedia of Philosophy over your personal opinion if you do not mind thank you.
Quote: Anti-theism on the other hand is much more positive since it believes that the world would be a much better much place if religion faded away completely.And will work to that end.
And yes, I am very much an anti-theist.
Oh I am sorry for you, even though you have no logical grounds to even define what “better” is.
Quote:
So Fucking What?
Well kind of hard to make something that is not a religion your “official religion” I would think. Also, I doubt that many people who lived in Stalin Run USSR would agree with your anti-theistic ideas. As Alexander Solzhenitsyn pointed out, 60 million people were murdered all because the Soviets “forgot God”.
