(June 2, 2016 at 10:55 am)ChadWooters Wrote:(June 2, 2016 at 9:59 am)Drich Wrote: There are 18 verses we use to establish the doctrine of "Omnipresence."
The 'paradox' you think you found in with the doctrine of an omni-max God, NOT the description of God as the bible describes Him.
Drich, could you please clarify that distinction between omnipresence and omnimax you're making. I'm not fully on board with your interpretation especially when I consider the following verses:
“In old days, God spoke to our fathers in many ways and by many means,[1] through the prophets; now at last 2 in these times he has spoken to us with a Son to speak for him; a Son, whom he has appointed to inherit all things, just as it was through him that he created this world of time; 3 a Son, who is the radiance of his Father’s splendour, and the full expression of his being; all creation depends, for its support, on his enabling word.” – Hebrews 1:3
“And yet, after all, he is not far from any one of us; it is in him that we live, and move, and have our being; thus, some of your own poets have told us,…” – Acts 17:24-28
”He has put everything under his dominion, and made him the head to which the whole Church is joined,so that the church is his body, the completion of Him who everywhere and in all things is complete.” – Ephesians 1:23
[i]“Where can I go, then, to take refuge from thy spirit, to hide from thy view? If I should climb up to heaven, thou art there; if I sink down to the world beneath, thou art present still.” – Psalm 139: 7-12
To me these support a doctrine that God serves as the universal ground of being which is what I think you also mean by omnipresent, but I 'm not sure. That doctrine is a far cry from that of these recalcitrant atheists who seem entrenched in the idea of some stern old man walking around in a fiery pit. Such is the poverty of both their intellect and imagination. They cannot be bothered to raise their eyes above the material world and their own sensual desires to witness spiritual things.
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Omni-max is a short term that incompasses all the different omni doctrine/aspects ascribed to God. Omni benevolent
Omnipotence, Omnipresent etc..
I have found that our definitions for these omni aspects of God are lacking, and even in cases like omni benevolence not biblically supported. Here's the Key to all of this, God never uses these terms to describe himself ever. These terms are constructs based off of a compilations of verses that have been tied together to, in a word to try and describe the nature of God. Which is misleading at times and even paradoxical at others. These are our words and doctrine and not His. Otherwise why has he never used these words to describe Himself when He was literally describing Himself in scripture?
The short answer here is God belongs in a class that does not lend it self to foolish and easily constructed paradoxes. 'If God is all powerful could he create a rock He could not lift?' 'If God is all loving, how can their be a hell?' etc.. God's description of Himself is far more complete that the omni-max foolishness we ascribe to Him. God simply calls Himself the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and end to all things.
Like most I heard this did not understand and dismissed it, and for a long time went with the omni-max foolishness. Then I started coming across the paradoxes that seemingly refute God be destroying the very Idea of an omni anything. So I prayed, and God gave me understanding to the meaning alpha and Omega.
The short answer here is an Alpha and Omega God does what ever He wants. As an alpha, He is leader/King He makes the decisions. As Omega He is the last word, the ultimate standard, He does not have to check himself in with any other standard or law. He is unopposed. All check themselves with him or will be checked by Him.
Although this explanation is simple it truly is able to encompass what we've tried and failed to do with the doctrine of omni-max God. It places God is a supreme position of power and authority and what's more it is paradox free.
Can and alpha and omega create a rock so big He can not lift it? Sure if He wants to.
How can a Alpha and Omega Have a Hell? Because as the bible says, He does not love everyone. There are those in whom God has said He hated.
Being described as an Alpha and Omega God means God gets to be whom ever and whatever He says He is and is not bound to the rules or definition we place on an Omni-max god. Because an Omni-max God is not an omega. He is bound by the defination of the term to be all-everything, which means He can't be less than God which kind fuels the muslim argument that Jesus could never be the son of God or God incarnate. But again, an Alpha and Omega could be less than an all powerful God. He could be All human and still retain his authority.
