For Americans tired of NRA bullying.

[The Grand Nudger]

What the do you mean crazy or criminal can't legally get them? The Virginia Tech shooter WAS mentally ill. He had no record when he LEGALLY bought the guns he used to murder 30 people. Not sure you are understanding me here. 

Still sure you don't understand due process.  

Nobody is promoting "presumption of guilt". I think some here are confusing a call to make less guns an a call for a better vetting process as being the same as "assume guilt". That is absolute nonsense. This is the bologna fear mongering the NRA has scared everybody with.

No?  Because you do -exactly- that in your comment below.

Vetting is what coaches do before they give you a starting position on a sports team. Vetting is what a MD degree is, that gives you the right to operate on others legally. The Va Tech Shooter who was mentally ill NEVER should have been allowed to buy the two handguns he used to murder 30 people. It would be like handing a medical licence to the mentally ill simply because the person was never diagnosed.

On what basis would you have prevented him from exercising his rights (regardless of whether or not you agree with them), in the absence of a diagnosis?  While we're discussing this, in this context, allow me to suggest that safely operating a firearm is a bit simpler than surgery. You just don't point it at people. Voila.

"Criminals will get their hands on them anyway" so "do nothing"...... Nope, sorry again, not buying it.

Convenient, since I'm not selling it...so why are we discussing it?  

Lets say I want to be a Secret Service agent. According to the logic of some, any attempt to make sure I can handle the job of protecting the president is a presumption of guilt? This is the horrible logic gun worshipers have? If you claim you want to keep them out of the wrong hands, then tell me why anyone would think "no record" at time of buy is enough? 

That's how our laws work.  We have to wait for someone to actually -commit- a crime...before we penalize them for same-said hypothetical future crime.  Hey, maybe that;s a weakness...maybe that leaves the door open for tragedy...it's certainly been opined upon as-such before. Got any precogs hiding in the wings?

It is insane that everyone rightfully wants cops and military to be well trained, but civilians all you need is no record? It isn't presumption of guilt to insure that someone can handle a task and hand a responsibility. Just like you don't automatically get a job just because you want one.

The cops and the military are expected to shoot at, in,  and around people.  Civilians are not...and it's illegal to do so.  The analogy would be woefully poor if you -hadn't- managed to babble about jobs...to which no one has any right, unfortunately. You also don't get to automatically have a gun just because you want one, legally. You have to be vetted for age, for the type of rifle pursuant to state laws, for criminal and mental health history. That;s what the background checks - which are required- do.

This isn't the wild fucking west, lol......we have laws. Some of which are poor...granted, as I said..I have an illegal 22 and a legal assualt rifle under a law that calls itself an assault weapon ban. Figure that shit out for me, and how it's the fault of the NRA or gun manufacturers?