Thanks for all your comments. I think a couple of issues have been illuminated.
First, let's talk about the different kinds of relationships. There are strangers, acquaintances, co-workers, relatives, significant others, etc. Another category is "friends." Within this category we may have distant friends and close friends. (Social networking has introduced another type of "friend" which, to me, is different from the conventional use of the word.)
So, when I say "friend," I mean someone I choose to associate with, or spend time with, because we have common interests and/or we feel mutual admiration and enjoyment. My definition of "friend" does not include acquaintances, co-workers, or even relatives who I simply happen to spend time around in different settings.
Now to talk about my ability to be friends with believers. First, of course, since the majority of the world's population are "believers" of one degree or another, it would be difficult and impractical to have no interaction with them. Myself, I have no difficulty being civil, polite and "friendly" with strangers and acquaintances (for example), many of whom are undoubtedly believers. I can and do even enjoy such interaction.
"Lucifer" wrote:
"Religion isn't like any other topic. I wouldn't dream of not becoming friends with someone because of their political, philosophical, economical or artistic preferences and opinions."
Agreed. I can "agree to disagree," and even engage in heated arguments with friends over subjects as potentially controversial as sexual lifestyle, socialism or musical trends. As long as someone can accept that I don't like a certain kind of music, for example, I can accept their right to enjoy it (just don't force me to listen to it).
Religion holds itself up as different, in that "one is not supposed to question it: it is beyond discussion." Being based on faith, instead of evidence, it is "off limits," despite the tremendous ramifications it has on personal and global life.
People who like rap music, for example, will not lay a trip on me that my non-appreciation of rap will condemn me to hell. They will (I believe), not tell me that rap music represents Ultimate Truth. Their appreciation of rap does not imply a belief in a divinely inspired "Rap Bible," which includes passages detailing how the rap-disinterested should be stoned or shunned.
9/11 was not caused by terrorists, it was caused by religion. The world can no longer tolerate the intolerance of *inherently divisive* supernatural beliefs like religion.
Choosing a religion is not a decision without ramifications. It is a holdover from the pre-scientific world that humans can no longer afford to ignore.
Excited Penguin
"I simply couldn't respect a theist enough on an intellectual level to form a deep friendship with him."
Yes.
As the well-know atheist Sam Harris (and others), has said, one of the most dangerous aspects of the modern world is the apathy with which many otherwise well meaning people view religion. In an effort to not shake the boat, be easy-going and to create "good feelings" with others, they don't stand up and talk back to point out the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty of those who condone religion.
Whateverist the White
"It just ain't that big a thang."
I disagree; it is a big thang. ;-)
Finally, if you haven't, I urge you to watch this TED Talk by R. Dawkins. As I said in my other thread, it's titled "Militant Atheism," but I think that was mainly to get a laugh (since TED Talks are supposed to be entertaining). There is a sense in which "militant" can mean "activist," however (my preferred label).
https://youtu.be/VxGMqKCcN6A
—DP
First, let's talk about the different kinds of relationships. There are strangers, acquaintances, co-workers, relatives, significant others, etc. Another category is "friends." Within this category we may have distant friends and close friends. (Social networking has introduced another type of "friend" which, to me, is different from the conventional use of the word.)
So, when I say "friend," I mean someone I choose to associate with, or spend time with, because we have common interests and/or we feel mutual admiration and enjoyment. My definition of "friend" does not include acquaintances, co-workers, or even relatives who I simply happen to spend time around in different settings.
Now to talk about my ability to be friends with believers. First, of course, since the majority of the world's population are "believers" of one degree or another, it would be difficult and impractical to have no interaction with them. Myself, I have no difficulty being civil, polite and "friendly" with strangers and acquaintances (for example), many of whom are undoubtedly believers. I can and do even enjoy such interaction.
"Lucifer" wrote:
"Religion isn't like any other topic. I wouldn't dream of not becoming friends with someone because of their political, philosophical, economical or artistic preferences and opinions."
Agreed. I can "agree to disagree," and even engage in heated arguments with friends over subjects as potentially controversial as sexual lifestyle, socialism or musical trends. As long as someone can accept that I don't like a certain kind of music, for example, I can accept their right to enjoy it (just don't force me to listen to it).
Religion holds itself up as different, in that "one is not supposed to question it: it is beyond discussion." Being based on faith, instead of evidence, it is "off limits," despite the tremendous ramifications it has on personal and global life.
People who like rap music, for example, will not lay a trip on me that my non-appreciation of rap will condemn me to hell. They will (I believe), not tell me that rap music represents Ultimate Truth. Their appreciation of rap does not imply a belief in a divinely inspired "Rap Bible," which includes passages detailing how the rap-disinterested should be stoned or shunned.
9/11 was not caused by terrorists, it was caused by religion. The world can no longer tolerate the intolerance of *inherently divisive* supernatural beliefs like religion.
Choosing a religion is not a decision without ramifications. It is a holdover from the pre-scientific world that humans can no longer afford to ignore.
Excited Penguin
"I simply couldn't respect a theist enough on an intellectual level to form a deep friendship with him."
Yes.
As the well-know atheist Sam Harris (and others), has said, one of the most dangerous aspects of the modern world is the apathy with which many otherwise well meaning people view religion. In an effort to not shake the boat, be easy-going and to create "good feelings" with others, they don't stand up and talk back to point out the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty of those who condone religion.
Whateverist the White
"It just ain't that big a thang."
I disagree; it is a big thang. ;-)
Finally, if you haven't, I urge you to watch this TED Talk by R. Dawkins. As I said in my other thread, it's titled "Militant Atheism," but I think that was mainly to get a laugh (since TED Talks are supposed to be entertaining). There is a sense in which "militant" can mean "activist," however (my preferred label).
https://youtu.be/VxGMqKCcN6A
—DP
