RE: Gamaliel Never Existed
May 16, 2011 at 8:23 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2011 at 8:33 pm by Minimalist.)
There's nothing wrong with your writing style. As you say, Josephus mentions many men who held the high-priesthood without ever mentioning this guy. The office of high priest went out the window when the temple burned down...as did the whole Sadducee establishment.
I've always found it odd that prior to 70, when Judaism was a temple based religion centered on animal sacrifice that the gospels mentioned the word "rabbi." The whole point of temple judaism was that you had to get your ass to the temple every so often and kick in a few shekels to the priests so they could murder a small animal for you. The people did not need "rabbis;" the priests in the temple knew what needed to be done and the people just needed to do as they were told. It that sense....it was very catholic!
Rabbis begin with "rabbinic judaism" which, not so oddly, begins only after the temple is burned to the ground. Josephus tries to portray that as an accident but he's full of shit on that one. Rabbinic judaism thus only gets started after 70....and probably not really until the 2d century which is when they started to compile the talmud. But this brings up an anachronism. Why would anyone call jesus a 'rabbi?' He was supposed to be dead long before the idea of a rabbi got going. But, if the gospels were second century writings then the only jews they would have come in contact with would have been post-temple judaism survivors and the term 'rabbi' might have been in general usage.
Anyway, just something to consider. Besides, you have a point when you say ""Gamaliel" has been invented, either by Christians with the agenda of Jewish proselytization and then later adopted by Jews in rebuttal of Christian claims," because lots of people in the passion story seem to know that jesus is going on to bigger and better things even while they nailed his ass to a cross. Pilate seems upset...his wife is really pissed ( no nookie for the prefect that night!) the centurion gets it....the thieves get it ( Romans did not crucify "thieves" ) there is even a suggestion in later xtian mythology that Caiaphas was really sorry about his part in the little drama so, yes...it does seem that the xtians were trying to work a little ex-post facto magic for their boy.
Of course, if there was no Gamaliel then who was "Paul's" teacher? At what point does the whole house of cards start to come down?
Oh, and while we're on the subject of jews, take a look at this:
http://www.biblelandpictures.com/gallery...=&shownew=
A 5th century synagogue in Tiberias ( Galilee ) with a mosaic floor and a representation of the Greek sun god, Helios.
Now that's not very "jewish" ( as we understand the term now ) is it?
I've always found it odd that prior to 70, when Judaism was a temple based religion centered on animal sacrifice that the gospels mentioned the word "rabbi." The whole point of temple judaism was that you had to get your ass to the temple every so often and kick in a few shekels to the priests so they could murder a small animal for you. The people did not need "rabbis;" the priests in the temple knew what needed to be done and the people just needed to do as they were told. It that sense....it was very catholic!
Rabbis begin with "rabbinic judaism" which, not so oddly, begins only after the temple is burned to the ground. Josephus tries to portray that as an accident but he's full of shit on that one. Rabbinic judaism thus only gets started after 70....and probably not really until the 2d century which is when they started to compile the talmud. But this brings up an anachronism. Why would anyone call jesus a 'rabbi?' He was supposed to be dead long before the idea of a rabbi got going. But, if the gospels were second century writings then the only jews they would have come in contact with would have been post-temple judaism survivors and the term 'rabbi' might have been in general usage.
Anyway, just something to consider. Besides, you have a point when you say ""Gamaliel" has been invented, either by Christians with the agenda of Jewish proselytization and then later adopted by Jews in rebuttal of Christian claims," because lots of people in the passion story seem to know that jesus is going on to bigger and better things even while they nailed his ass to a cross. Pilate seems upset...his wife is really pissed ( no nookie for the prefect that night!) the centurion gets it....the thieves get it ( Romans did not crucify "thieves" ) there is even a suggestion in later xtian mythology that Caiaphas was really sorry about his part in the little drama so, yes...it does seem that the xtians were trying to work a little ex-post facto magic for their boy.
Of course, if there was no Gamaliel then who was "Paul's" teacher? At what point does the whole house of cards start to come down?
Oh, and while we're on the subject of jews, take a look at this:
http://www.biblelandpictures.com/gallery...=&shownew=
A 5th century synagogue in Tiberias ( Galilee ) with a mosaic floor and a representation of the Greek sun god, Helios.
Now that's not very "jewish" ( as we understand the term now ) is it?
