RE: A serious question for theists
November 12, 2016 at 12:39 pm
(This post was last modified: November 12, 2016 at 1:10 pm by Ignorant.)
(November 8, 2016 at 1:09 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: What sacrifice? Jesus died and then supposedly came back to life, and then went to Heaven to be with God. Some sacrifice. More like a temporary inconvenience.
Rhythm Wrote: Meh, so what if he suffered "as a man". If what is described in the NT is all the suffering that's required to wash away the consequences of every sin that man has ever and will ever engage in, then we're a species of fucking saints who don;t need any redemption to begin with.
Jesus suffered all the physical and psychological pains and suffering and death you'd expect in the entire passion and crucifixion narrative. What makes it different, at least what Christians claim, is that combined with all of that suffering, Jesus suffered all of the physical and psychological and moral pain and suffering and death of not merely every human who has or will ever live, but every thing that has or ever will exist. What we "see" in his wounds in the passion and crucifixion contain not merely his suffering, but the suffering and lacking of everything in creation. He took all of that shit and united it to his own passion, cross and death so that he can tell us each that he is there when we suffer, and he suffers with us. He is co-passionate (i.e. compassionate) with all of creation, even if that same creation rejects him.
In return for accepting the shittiness of our human condition, as focused and manifested into a few agonizing hours and death "as a man", he does not ask a thing. He simply gives you the gift of his divine condition, as focused and manifested into an eternity of a divinely-human life lived with God. What's more, is that he won't make you wait for that eternity. He gives you a foretaste of that life here and now "as we wait for the redemption of our bodies."
He was suffering and dying with us, ALL OF US, through his humanity, so that we could live with him through his divinity.