RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 6:07 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2016 at 6:08 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
What is sad is that reasonable conversation has been poisoned by false charges of racism. Racism is a profound evil. Telling someone he is wrong that is one thing. Telling him he is evil is another. I crimped from another thread TLDR: …It is not racist for a sovereign nation
Strict immigration policies, in themselves, are not racist. That is not to say that they wouldn't disproportionally affect specific demographics or cultures. They would. To me that is an unfortunate accidental effect of geography, not an intentionally engineered result.
At the same time, lawful does not have to mean complicated. Felons that are foreign nationals should be returned to their country of origin. Period. There is no reasonable objection to this policy.
On the other hand, dealing with children born in the US of foreign nationals illegally living in the US is a very hard problem. There is no good solution. The benefits of citizenship generally get distributed based on geography. When parents live in Chicago the children go to Chicago Public Schools. When parents live in a foreign country their children attend the schools in that country. It is solely the fault of illegal immigrants when their US citizen children do not receive the benefits of their citizenship as a result of their (the parents) not being legal residents. No one forced foreign nationals to enter the US illegally. No one forced them to have children in the US. Having made those choices, it is not fair for those same foreign nationals to now expect the taxpayers of the country, the country they shouldn’t even be in, to shoulder the burden of raising their children.
(Local school funding is usually paid primarily by local taxes that everyone pays. In theory, immigrant children shouldn’t be a money problem. In practice, however, the cultural differences and economic disparities make education significantly more expensive and less effective. ESL and remedial programs come at the expense of students that are already prepared for school.)
Having to pay for the poor parenting choices of illegal immigrants is not fair. But even I as a conservative recognize the practical necessity of assisting irresponsible undeserving parents in order to help their children who are citizens. So I fully understand and agree with more politically liberal people about giving financial aid to the foreign national parents so their children can remain in the US to benefit from public education, decent medical care etc.
I do not think it is unreasonable to expect parents to at least partially step-up to the plate for the benefit of their children by having gainful and legal employment. So I favor providing generous and guest-worker or work permits (including immediate family dependents). You may enter (or stay if already here) to find work. If you do not find gainful employment within a reasonable amount of time, like one or two years, then you and your dependents, even if they are US citizens, must return to your country of origin and reapply for entry. Rather than blanket amnesty I would give automatic work permits to foreign nationals now living in the USA illegally. But no benefits of citizenship like voting or trial by jury, etc. (Justice is a human right, but trial by jury is a civil right). Those not able or willing to find employment will either self-deport or be forcibly required to return to their country of origin. When the children come of age they can enter the USA on their own and if they desire have their dependent parents come live with them.
My disagreement with liberals is their failure to recognize the perverse incentives and conditions that cause that dilemma in the first place, like insecure borders and birthplace citizenship. Maybe if they spent more time trying to address those conservative concerns and less time making accusations of racism we could come up with better solutions.
Strict immigration policies, in themselves, are not racist. That is not to say that they wouldn't disproportionally affect specific demographics or cultures. They would. To me that is an unfortunate accidental effect of geography, not an intentionally engineered result.
At the same time, lawful does not have to mean complicated. Felons that are foreign nationals should be returned to their country of origin. Period. There is no reasonable objection to this policy.
On the other hand, dealing with children born in the US of foreign nationals illegally living in the US is a very hard problem. There is no good solution. The benefits of citizenship generally get distributed based on geography. When parents live in Chicago the children go to Chicago Public Schools. When parents live in a foreign country their children attend the schools in that country. It is solely the fault of illegal immigrants when their US citizen children do not receive the benefits of their citizenship as a result of their (the parents) not being legal residents. No one forced foreign nationals to enter the US illegally. No one forced them to have children in the US. Having made those choices, it is not fair for those same foreign nationals to now expect the taxpayers of the country, the country they shouldn’t even be in, to shoulder the burden of raising their children.
(Local school funding is usually paid primarily by local taxes that everyone pays. In theory, immigrant children shouldn’t be a money problem. In practice, however, the cultural differences and economic disparities make education significantly more expensive and less effective. ESL and remedial programs come at the expense of students that are already prepared for school.)
Having to pay for the poor parenting choices of illegal immigrants is not fair. But even I as a conservative recognize the practical necessity of assisting irresponsible undeserving parents in order to help their children who are citizens. So I fully understand and agree with more politically liberal people about giving financial aid to the foreign national parents so their children can remain in the US to benefit from public education, decent medical care etc.
I do not think it is unreasonable to expect parents to at least partially step-up to the plate for the benefit of their children by having gainful and legal employment. So I favor providing generous and guest-worker or work permits (including immediate family dependents). You may enter (or stay if already here) to find work. If you do not find gainful employment within a reasonable amount of time, like one or two years, then you and your dependents, even if they are US citizens, must return to your country of origin and reapply for entry. Rather than blanket amnesty I would give automatic work permits to foreign nationals now living in the USA illegally. But no benefits of citizenship like voting or trial by jury, etc. (Justice is a human right, but trial by jury is a civil right). Those not able or willing to find employment will either self-deport or be forcibly required to return to their country of origin. When the children come of age they can enter the USA on their own and if they desire have their dependent parents come live with them.
My disagreement with liberals is their failure to recognize the perverse incentives and conditions that cause that dilemma in the first place, like insecure borders and birthplace citizenship. Maybe if they spent more time trying to address those conservative concerns and less time making accusations of racism we could come up with better solutions.
